Highpower positions, sling use, and gloves...pics!
- Thread starter Steve Smith
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280PLUS
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gotcha!
thanx, the question now is can the old guy still sit like that, and if so, will he be able to get up afterward...
thanx, the question now is can the old guy still sit like that, and if so, will he be able to get up afterward...
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
where can i get a capitalist oppressor sticker?
Rockrivr1
Member
Steve,
Thanks for posting the pictures and the PM letting me know this thread was out here.
I noticed that while standing your support hand had your palm and your fingers point towards you. While shooting some of the Sunday reduced matches and coaching from Cold, I have my hand reversed so that my thumb is on the right and fingers on the left. In that position the fingers are pointing straight up. Is there any disadvantage using this stance instead of the one you have in the picture?
I'm also glad you posted pictures of the sitting position. I wasn't quite sure what a good stance was for that. One question on sling use. When you have that loop in place around your arm, is the sling actually buckled on the butt end or is it free so that the end of the sling is almost all the way out? Basically if loose the metal claw in the butt sling loop of the AR.
As I was looking at the pictures I was thinking the same thing as Skunkabilly. I was figuring one of your neighbors would look out the window and see you out there with that "evil" weapon.
Thanks for posting the pictures and the PM letting me know this thread was out here.
I noticed that while standing your support hand had your palm and your fingers point towards you. While shooting some of the Sunday reduced matches and coaching from Cold, I have my hand reversed so that my thumb is on the right and fingers on the left. In that position the fingers are pointing straight up. Is there any disadvantage using this stance instead of the one you have in the picture?
I'm also glad you posted pictures of the sitting position. I wasn't quite sure what a good stance was for that. One question on sling use. When you have that loop in place around your arm, is the sling actually buckled on the butt end or is it free so that the end of the sling is almost all the way out? Basically if loose the metal claw in the butt sling loop of the AR.
As I was looking at the pictures I was thinking the same thing as Skunkabilly. I was figuring one of your neighbors would look out the window and see you out there with that "evil" weapon.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
Your left had position is a personal thing. I've changed mine many times in the last year. Just find something that works for you.
Yes, I have the sling connected at the rear of the stock. Some guys don't but at least reconnect the tag end back to the sling so the frog doesn't catch your shoestring or something else.
Yes, I have the sling connected at the rear of the stock. Some guys don't but at least reconnect the tag end back to the sling so the frog doesn't catch your shoestring or something else.
cracked butt
Member
Great thread! I especially learned a bit about the sitting position that plagues me so much. The sticker on your stock also made my day.
Hey, Steve, great thread, and the pictures are terrific, also.
One suggestion if I might. Could you post a picture of the crossed ankle position for those who may be afflicted with either the Dunlop disease or advanced age (I have both) and are unable to assume the low, crossed leg position. It has been many years since I have been able to get the better crossed leg position.
Regards,
hps
One suggestion if I might. Could you post a picture of the crossed ankle position for those who may be afflicted with either the Dunlop disease or advanced age (I have both) and are unable to assume the low, crossed leg position. It has been many years since I have been able to get the better crossed leg position.
Regards,
hps
Jon Coppenbarger
Member
I am 48 going on 49 and I have a mid age gut going on and I sit real close to that and I mean real close.
when I switched from a m1a I shot crossed ankle back when I quit in 92 to the crossed leg with the ar15 when I started again in the fall of 2001 I really gave it my all to get the crossed leg position down.
alot of folks might think that it is a un-comfy position and it is unless you find the right position and it took me a good year to get it down. and even now I am looking at ways to slightly adjust my head position as it kinda floats on the stock but I will keep it like it is and play with it some in practice.
in that position like in the photo I have not dropped more than 1 point in a match since oct.
in the photo steve has the perfect classic crossed leg position down to head position and everything else.
the only difference I have ( maybe age and mid-section) is in my head position and my rifle is out more to the right with extreme sling pressure but those are very, very small changes and are more to fit my body than anything else.
the position is very comfy and very, very repeatible which is what you want.
I will sit like that alot while ready a book or watching tv or out on the lawn in the summer, the leg position anyway and it becomes a natual position that you can drop right into. plus on the mag change my left elbow never comes off my leg. all I do is to take the rifle out of my shoulder rotate the rifle slightly drop the mag , insert new mag , reach across and hit the bolt release and look the stock back into the right position in the shoulder and drop the right elbow back down on my leg and my npa has never changed and you are banging away again in a few seconds.
it is not a position you master over night but for a ar15 its worth the practice time.
good luck jon
when I switched from a m1a I shot crossed ankle back when I quit in 92 to the crossed leg with the ar15 when I started again in the fall of 2001 I really gave it my all to get the crossed leg position down.
alot of folks might think that it is a un-comfy position and it is unless you find the right position and it took me a good year to get it down. and even now I am looking at ways to slightly adjust my head position as it kinda floats on the stock but I will keep it like it is and play with it some in practice.
in that position like in the photo I have not dropped more than 1 point in a match since oct.
in the photo steve has the perfect classic crossed leg position down to head position and everything else.
the only difference I have ( maybe age and mid-section) is in my head position and my rifle is out more to the right with extreme sling pressure but those are very, very small changes and are more to fit my body than anything else.
the position is very comfy and very, very repeatible which is what you want.
I will sit like that alot while ready a book or watching tv or out on the lawn in the summer, the leg position anyway and it becomes a natual position that you can drop right into. plus on the mag change my left elbow never comes off my leg. all I do is to take the rifle out of my shoulder rotate the rifle slightly drop the mag , insert new mag , reach across and hit the bolt release and look the stock back into the right position in the shoulder and drop the right elbow back down on my leg and my npa has never changed and you are banging away again in a few seconds.
it is not a position you master over night but for a ar15 its worth the practice time.
good luck jon
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
I can get the pic sometime this weekend, but as Jon said, the cross legged position is usually better but to start with it won't feel like it. Spend some time stretching and getting into that position and you may find that you can do it easily in a few days or a week.
Jon/Steve:
Agree 100% the crossed leg position is much better than crossed ankle, if you can get into it. I could, and did in the late 50's/early 60's but when I got back into HP in '83, what w/Dunlop disease and arthritis, just couldn't get that low position any longer.
Jon, I got 18 years on you and believe me, sitting is not one of my favorite positions. Biggest problem I had w/crossed ankle position was with the recoil of either the M1 or my '06 bolt gun would rock me back each shot and recovery time, especially w/bolt gun used up a lot of time. Finally hit on the solution to that.......switched my billfold to my right hip pocket. This acted as a wedge and helped tremendously. Sometimes the smallest change can make a great difference. Doubt that the AR would be a problem in this regard.
Steve, I certainly was not criticizing your thread. I think you have done a great service to shooters in general, and especially new shooters. As someone said, you have saved them many hours and lots of ammo in "discovering" lots of the little tricks of the trade. In fact, I e.mailed a link to the thread to a friend that, I am sure, will benefit from it greatly. The cross ankle was just a suggestion, since I feel sure there are those that for whatever reason cannot use the cross leg position. Keep up the good work!
Regards,
hps
PS Congratulations on the Master classification!
Agree 100% the crossed leg position is much better than crossed ankle, if you can get into it. I could, and did in the late 50's/early 60's but when I got back into HP in '83, what w/Dunlop disease and arthritis, just couldn't get that low position any longer.
Jon, I got 18 years on you and believe me, sitting is not one of my favorite positions.
Biggest problem I had w/crossed ankle position was with the recoil of either the M1 or my '06 bolt gun would rock me back each shot and recovery time, especially w/bolt gun used up a lot of time. Finally hit on the solution to that.......switched my billfold to my right hip pocket. This acted as a wedge and helped tremendously. Sometimes the smallest change can make a great difference. Doubt that the AR would be a problem in this regard.Steve, I certainly was not criticizing your thread. I think you have done a great service to shooters in general, and especially new shooters. As someone said, you have saved them many hours and lots of ammo in "discovering" lots of the little tricks of the trade. In fact, I e.mailed a link to the thread to a friend that, I am sure, will benefit from it greatly. The cross ankle was just a suggestion, since I feel sure there are those that for whatever reason cannot use the cross leg position. Keep up the good work!
Regards,
hps
PS Congratulations on the Master classification!
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
I'll try to get that cross-legged pic soon. Perhaps an open-legged position would be good too, although I've only seen one person ever do that and he didn't shoot so well.
I assume your congrats are to JC121 because I am still an Expert right now. I might shoot Master scores, but I have to wait until the NRA pats me on the head and tells me that I've been a good boy before I can claim Master.
I assume your congrats are to JC121 because I am still an Expert right now. I might shoot Master scores, but I have to wait until the NRA pats me on the head and tells me that I've been a good boy before I can claim Master.
Steve:
Sorry the congrats were premature. I read one of your previous posts saying a position allowed you to shoot master scores and interpreted that as that you had received your card.
Hang in there, they'll come thru one of these days.
Like you, I only know one shooter who uses the open-legged position and he is a looooong legged feller .
Regards,
hps
Sorry the congrats were premature. I read one of your previous posts saying a position allowed you to shoot master scores and interpreted that as that you had received your card.
Hang in there, they'll come thru one of these days.
Like you, I only know one shooter who uses the open-legged position and he is a looooong legged feller
.Regards,
hps
Steve , I enjoyed the thread . I'm working with the Garand untill I get it worked out . So far my rapids are the worst , I've tried cross leg and cross ankle and results are about the same . I have found that a very tight sling seems to help . Any Ideas ?
Thanks , Jack
Thanks , Jack
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
While I own a Garand, I don't shoot it much. I think the best way to handle her would be cross ankled, shooting almost straight out of your position (almost over your feet), with your legs stretched out quite a ways and your torso very low over your legs. Tight sling. Elbows in front of knees. If you want to get really serious use some shooting pants with rubber on the knees and spray some stick-um on your elbows. That's what the old timers did.
I guess I'm moving in the right direction then . I'm still trying to do this with whatever I might have with me in the beanfield at the time . Special pants and spray on stickum almost seems like ...like cheatin' In order to get to the top of the thirty caliber pile I realize that's what I'll have to do . I just want to see what I can do before I get all that gear that make it work .
Thanks , Jack
In order to get to the top of the thirty caliber pile I realize that's what I'll have to do . I just want to see what I can do before I get all that gear that make it work . Thanks , Jack
Sven
Senior Member
Bump - great thread.
Is it just me, or is sitting one of the most difficult positions to pull off? I'm 6' 3", 210 pounds, and I felt that I had to 'hunchback' to get a sight picture AND put my elbows on the flats of my knees.
Is it just me, or is sitting one of the most difficult positions to pull off? I'm 6' 3", 210 pounds, and I felt that I had to 'hunchback' to get a sight picture AND put my elbows on the flats of my knees.
Sven:
Sitting is a bit difficult but once you get the position sorted out, it beats standing IMHO .
Having never shot an AR, can't comment on them, but one thing I have found helpful in sitting is to place butt of rifle very high on my shoulder and canting it to the left (I am right handed). This places the rifle so that line of sight is pretty much centered in my glasses without having to crane my neck or bend head forward. The more erect your head is, the less eye strain and the better your vision.
Either sitting position will work well with the garand, as Steve pointed out, you want as much of your body weight directly behind the rifle as you can get to help absorb the recoil and lessen recovery time between shots.
I don't think this has been mentioned before, if I missed it, please excust the duplication, but, whatever position you feel more comfortable with, use your prep period to get a good natural aim point and when command "shooters stand" is given, keep your feet positioned as they are and stand w/legs crossed. This allows you to assume the sitting position and get the nap back with very little effort and lost time. NAP is VERY important in all positions, but possibly even moreso in the rapids.
Regards,
hps
Sitting is a bit difficult but once you get the position sorted out, it beats standing IMHO
.Having never shot an AR, can't comment on them, but one thing I have found helpful in sitting is to place butt of rifle very high on my shoulder and canting it to the left (I am right handed). This places the rifle so that line of sight is pretty much centered in my glasses without having to crane my neck or bend head forward. The more erect your head is, the less eye strain and the better your vision.
Either sitting position will work well with the garand, as Steve pointed out, you want as much of your body weight directly behind the rifle as you can get to help absorb the recoil and lessen recovery time between shots.
I don't think this has been mentioned before, if I missed it, please excust the duplication, but, whatever position you feel more comfortable with, use your prep period to get a good natural aim point and when command "shooters stand" is given, keep your feet positioned as they are and stand w/legs crossed. This allows you to assume the sitting position and get the nap back with very little effort and lost time. NAP is VERY important in all positions, but possibly even moreso in the rapids.
Regards,
hps
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
Well, there are a couple of different ways to get up and sit down. The way the guys from the AMU taught me was much more simple and it works well for me. Get your NPA, then mark where both your feet are and spit right in front of your crotch (can I say that here?) to mark your butt position. Get up normally. Put your left heel right were your mark was (or better, get up without moving this foot). When the targets come up you use your firing arm to steady your descent, put your other foot where the mark is, check your crotch/spit mark, and get down in position. It works well and keeps you from rolling over backwards.
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atek3
Member
"capitalist oppresor"
god, I live in berkeley CA, and I soooo need that sticker!!
atek3
god, I live in berkeley CA, and I soooo need that sticker!!
atek3
I shot my first service rifle clinic yesterday and was crowing about it over in Rifle. Steve was kind enough to get my attention and suggest I look in here and the first thing I find is his great thread showing some of the techniques I saw the experienced shooters using. Thanks Steve.
Is there a good set of pictures/instructions for sling settings? I was shooting a Garand with a leather sling and had no more ideas about how to position it than the old left hand wrap I'd seen in the past.
Is there a good set of pictures/instructions for sling settings? I was shooting a Garand with a leather sling and had no more ideas about how to position it than the old left hand wrap I'd seen in the past.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
I will be out of town for the next few weeks. Hopefully someone will pick up the ball and run with it concerning those sling pics.
Sven
Senior Member
I hope nobody minds me bumping this thread.
I just searched for it specificially and was glad to have it found it again in the archive.
I just searched for it specificially and was glad to have it found it again in the archive.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
Hmm...seems I forgot to take some pics...maybe I'll do that this weekend.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
I know it is hard to tell but there is an OBI in the gun in all those pics. JC121 was the photographer and be have a great deal of trust between us. We made the decision to do what we did in order to have good pictures for you guys.
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