Hit the Dirt!

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PH/CIB

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I have not been in a firefight since Viet Nam in 1968/1969 over 37 years ago, even though I have carried a firearm concealed since 1969 until now. Of course in the Military we went looking for trouble,,, where as a civilian I avoid trouble like the plague. Military firefights were fireteam or squad or platoon or company sized against similar elements of the enemy and everyone hit the dirt took cover and returned fire immediately as these firefights consisted of multiple automatic rifles, grenades, machine guns and the air was full of metal.

If I ever get in a civilian gunfight it will be interesting if my old training to hit the dirt return fire and take cover kicks in or my new training to return fire and run to cover takes over. My question is which is better for a civilian gunfight with less people and probably handguns? Obviously you can return fire and run to cover faster than returning fire and going prone and low crawling to cover but being upright might make you more of a target? However being prone and low crawling to cover is slower and might make you more of a target to someone still standing up? Who would get there the first with the most and survive? No matter what the tactic, getting the first accurate hits in is most important, but what tactic would you use, draw and return fire while running to cover or draw and return fire while hitting the dirt and low crawling to cover? Actually very few people have probably survived very many civilian gunfights, have any books been written on civilian gunfights and the tactics that worked in different scenarios?
 
I cant say for sure what i would do except REACT how the situation allowed. I would think that hitting the dirt in the open wouldnt be a smart idea. However if hitting the dirt gives you the best immediate cover then i would do it. In the open?? I would RUN like the wind.

I am curious to see the different replies to you question.
 
For me it would depend on whos shooting at me! If it were some low life gang banger I would prob'ly run as fast and as far as I could. I doubt the accuracy of some crack/meth head GB'er would be all that good beyond parking lot range. :neener:
But! If I was in a situation where someone that knows what they are doing.:eek: I think I'd be looking for the deepest cover and concielment avaliable to make use of. This would also depend on if I had the ability to return fire, or just just needed to get out of dodge!
I had some moron flinging rounds downrange at a running whitetail ,with me in between him and said whitetail!:what: And my old infantry training kicked in REAL fast, I hit the dirt. I also gave the moron a good chewing out when I came up to him at the end of the field.
 
Since the old aphorism of reacting to the level of your training is a fairly accurate one I would venture to guess that as a Vietnam Vet you will react the way your training and experience in Nam taught you to react. Unless you get some extensive training to counter those reflexes that is. Nothing ingrains a reaction into a reflex like live fire.

Anyone who has been in enough shootouts as a civilian to be able to produce a knowledgeable book is either a reincarnation of Wyatt Earp etc. or a moron looking for trouble. Most of what is written is a compilation of actions, beliefs and recommendations from people who have survived one or perhaps two gunfights. Like anything else in life if you tempt the devil often enough you will lose, the same odds apply to gunfighting. No matter how good you are if the hamfisted idiot on the other side of the equation gets lucky you will be just as dead as if he was Marshall Dillon and you were a bad guy in Dodge City.
 
I was in the 198th in the Americal 68-69. We went through basic about the same time I guess. When they taught me to take cover or hit the dirt I wondered why people had to be told this?

I retired after about 31 years as a LEO. I spent most of that time as a firearms instructor and my last 10-11 years as the primary firearms instructor for my office. I was also responsible for teaching tactics.

A lot of research was done on police gunfights and the bottom line is to take cover first. If you do you stand better than a 99% chance of surviving a gunfight. Once under cover you have more than a 98% chance of not getting hurt.
 
I think the benfits of "hitting the dirt" are dependent on distance. At rifle distances, hitting the dirt is a good strategy. At common handgun distances, much less so.
 
Shoulder rolls are a pretty good compromise. You can cover a lot of ground pretty quickly but you are a VERY difficult target. Depends a lot on how far you are from cover, because 4-5 rolls may leave you dizzy :p
 
... if hitting the dirt gives you the best immediate cover then i would do it. In the open?? I would RUN like the wind.
While I have yet to be shot at in a firefight (and hope I never am), I would certainly consider dropping to the ground as a viable option. It would depend on distance, timing, how near to cover I was. Generally, particularly if cover is near, getting off the mark and moving to cover should be the best option. If caught in the open with no surrounding cover, however, dropping to the prone position should be the fastest way to (a) make myself the smallest possible target, and (b) increase accuracy (via being prone). Would completely depend on circumstances. Add to the fact that I have a damaged leg (nerve injury) that keeps me from running fast or far, so there are few options if I were to get caught in the open.
 
Thank You! all for your excellent responses and a sense of humor thrown in, we all need some of that! Sounds like a lot of us have "Been There, Done That!" and my gratitude to GRIZ22 for the research and statistics on surviving gunfights by taking cover and people surviving over 98% of the time. Lastly Thank You! all who have served in the Military and/or Law Enforcement and Your Service to Our Country!

"Our Foundation of Freedom Makes Everything Else Possible in America!!!,,,That Foundation is Made up of Veterans!!!"
 
If I had to rely on my military training/Vietnam experience I'd be screwed looking around for 6" armor plating to protect me. {USS Oklahoma City (CLG-5) '70-71}
 
Quote: f I had to rely on my military training/Vietnam experience I'd be screwed looking around for 6" armor plating to protect me. {USS Oklahoma City (CLG-5) '70-71}
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LOL, you still might, if you lived where I live, but down the road some, in another city, some 8 clicks/miles away, where all the Vietnamese settled, and the entire city is, or was, posted with pure Vietnamese signs and words, everywhere along the main blvd, that meant nothing to these eyes, as in *** does it all say?, until as I said, the remaining English speaking counsel members, and the other truly Americanized Vietnam counsel members, voted (amazing, votes still count and work sometimes) and had them put on all those signs, in English, under the Vietnamese words, what they said, or meant, in their city called officially, Little Saigon.
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Quote: Lastly Thank You! all who have served in the Military and/or Law Enforcement and Your Service to Our Country!

"Our Foundation of Freedom Makes Everything Else Possible in America!!!,,,That Foundation is Made up of Veterans!!!"
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HERE HERE !!


LS
 
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Hitting the dirt will reduce your profile a lot and put you in a good position to line up a good shot, I would think, but a reduced profile doesn't mean you're under good cover.

Did you ever cuss the buttons on your shirt for keeping you farther away from Mother Earth?
That's a Tigerland reference, right?
 
Getting to cover.

The advice to take cover is sound, but with a twist. Move to cover, even if it's directly away from the fight, aggressively. Some recent force-on-force scenarios taught me several things. Getting the first shot off reduces your chances of getting shot. Getting to good cover *almost* eliminates getting shot. Turning your back, even if it is to run to cover, gets you shot in the back every time. 100 percent, never failed.
 
seems to me that you would probably never run into a situation in the civilian world that would make getting down a good option. in combat, in defense situations, you are fighting alongside buddies. the fire you are taking is being returned by others, aside from yourself. you can afford to get down, because you can typically count on others providing covering fire....the enemy has multiple threats. if you are alone in self-defense situation, you either want to move away from the threat quickly, or eliminate the threat quickly. neither scenario leaves much room for getting down and getting embroiled in a static fire-fight. that sounds like a quick path to getting shot, especially since presumably you'll have no buddies there to help.
 
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