HK LEM Trigger - Sliced bread *had* a good long run...

[tetchaje1]

I got to shoot a USP Compact with the LEM trigger on Saturday and all I can say is WOW! I dropped by a local dealer and they were having "HK Days" complete with a rep from HK and a lineup of pistols that anybody could shoot for free if they purchased ammo from the gun shop.

The best way to describe the trigger is to compare it to Para's LDA trigger. The trigger has an effortless take-up, followed by a very short but positive resistance, and then a crisp break. *BOOM*

Reset was pretty short -- not as short as the Walther P99, but shorter than all of my SIGs (which have an admittedly long reset) and HKs. Reset was positive and easily distinguished. By riding the sear back to the reset, the hammer stays back and you can immediately pull the trigger again, or you can let the trigger all the way out. This drops the hammer, and returns the pistol to the initial stage of effortless take-up.

It was almost scary how fast I could shoot with this setup...

The pistol that I shot had what was supposed to be the 8lbs trigger, but it was so smooth it felt much lighter. My accuracy was not affected at all by the trigger weight. I can only imagine how slick the trigger must be with the 4.5lbs trigger spring installed.

Conclusion: A+ for HK designers on this one. Since I have mine (in 9mm) coming in a week or so, I am going to be a very happy camper.

Now I just can't wait to try out SIG's new "K-Trigger" which is a similar short-trigger set-up that is coming out this fall. Oh so many guns and so little money...

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The HK rep also answered my questions in regards to HK rumors, and there is plenty of good news.

1) HK is not discontinuing the P7 series any time soon.

2) HK is looking into building a factory here in the U.S. in order to gain more military and LEO contracts.

3) The end goal of building a factory in the U.S. is to "compete directly with Glock in pricing". The poor exchange rate between the Euro and the dollar, coupled with prohibitive firearms taxation in Germany, has been killing HKs ability to competitively price their pistols. End result? Building a factory in the U.S. and dropping prices!

 

[BerettaNut92]

I haven't seen a single one of these darn things in California. I'll just wait for the P2000 but my Beretta is keeping me pretty happy right now.

 

[10-Ring]

Which pistol did you try that LEM on, USPc or P2000? I've tried the USPc 40 LEM & really liked it. I'd be really interested in a P2000 w/ the LEM

 

[tetchaje1]

10-Ring,
USP Compact in 40S&W. I just barely purchased one in 9mm from a guy in Nebraska, so I'll let you know how it is in that caliber. I actually prefer the aggressive stipling on the USP Compact in comparison to my other polymer guns, so I wanted to get a USP Compact over the new P2000 (not to mention that I paid hundreds less for one... ).

Skunk,
I had only seen one other LEM Compact here in Utah, and it was at the same shop a while back. Most HK dealers that I talk to have no idea what it is...

 

[10-Ring]

USPc 9 w/ the LEM? I thought it was only available in the US in the 40? Make sure you have the LEM & not just one of the DAO varients

 

[Cawdor]

The LEM is available in the USP Compact 9. Cal's is also advertising its own LEM conversions for the USP Compact in .45 ACP and .357 Sig.

I'm waiting for the P2000, so I am glad to see the positive comments on the LEM.

However, I am not persuaded by HK's comments regarding its ability to price its guns competitively. The P99 is made in Germany, so Walther faces the same problems with the Euro and taxation that HK does. Yet I bought a P99 QA for $529 (and I have seen it for less), while the USP Compact LEM is $690 at Cal's. The P2000 will probably be over $700. I expect an HK to be more expensive than a Glock. Should it really be that much more expensive than a Walther?

 

[BerettaNut92]

I wonder how a LEM Expert would do as a carry gun...are these only for Compacts?

 

[jnb01]

tetchaje1, do you prefer the LEM trigger over that of the one found on the Steyr M40?

I have never been able to find a USPc w/ the LEM trigger. The P2000 looks like a slick pistol, but from what I've been hearing, it is going to be very spendy, moreso than other HK products.

What really intrests me though, is the short K-trigger you mentioned Sig coming out with. I do recall a thread awhile back on Sig-forum regarding a light DAO trigger with a short reset, is this what your speaking of? If so, can you provide some additional details like model availability, LE-only, ect...

A P229 or P220ST with this type of trigger system would be sweet!

Best, jnb01

 

[tetchaje1]

10-Ring,
Yes, Cawdor is right that the LEM is offered from the factory with a 9mm version, as well. I don't know how Cal's is getting access to the parts needed to do the conversion on the 357SIG and 45ACP version, but the factory does offer it in 9mm, as well as, 40S&W.

Cawdor,
I agree with you w.r.t. the pricing of HKs pistols. When you buy HK, you are also buying into the snob appeal of the club. Case in point: is a Harley Softail Classic really worth $20,000? No, of course not, but people pay that amount to become a part of the "club".

I would imagine that HK will bring their prices down to the mid-to-upper $500's (street price, not MSRP), but not below that because they have a good strong hold on the high-end plastic market, and they don't want their product to be viewed as "cheap" because they lowered the price.

I also imagine that HK will offer their pistols at deep discounts to LEOs, similar to what Glock has done, and pass that expense back to the civilian market. This is probably a more realistic explanation of what would happen -- much lower prices for LEOs, slightly lower prices for us.

Skunk,
As far as I know, the LEM trigger is only offered on the Compacts and the P2000. Doesn't the Expert already have the Match trigger installed from the factory? How would the Match trigger be on the Expert in carry configuration?

jnb01,
Yes, I actually greatly prefer the LEM trigger over my Steyrs. I like having a long first pull (though the LEM trigger pull is really not that long -- nowhere near the length of the LOOOOOOOOONG Beretta pulls). Once the take-up is complete the trigger breaks very cleanly without any creep or grit, and the travel is about the last 1/8" or so. I was extremely impressed with it.

The Steyr is takes the sponge out of the Glock trigger, and I shoot it very well, but I just prefer the way the LEM works being an HK and SIG guy with a couple of Steyrs thrown in.

As far as the "K-Trigger" from SIG is concerned, yes it is the short, light DAO that is coming out later this year. As far as I know, it will be offered on the 229 and 226 first, with the other models following suit. The "duty weapons" are the ones that will be offered with the modification first and I would imagine that this also entails the P220 series of pistols. The K-trigger 239 (and most likely P245) will not be offered until sometime in 2004.

A very smart move for SIG, IMO, as more an more agencies worried about liability are switching to DAO triggers. After reading about report after report of NDs with the short triggers on the Glocks (Let's face it, most cops aren't "gun people". Many of them lack trigger discipline.), I think that a light DAO like the Kahr Elite, HK LEM, and SIG K-trigger are the way of the future. The only thing that really inhibits Kahr in this arena is the lack of double stack offerings in their line-up and the LOOOOOOOONG trigger reset (not to mention that their QC has been hit and miss lately).

HK offers the LEM as a retrofit to LEOs, and the SIG trigger has required only minor frame modifications, so should be a pretty painless transition. Kahr on the other hand, by design of their cam system (which is pretty ingenious, IMO, with its simplicity and effectiveness) precludes a modification to shorten the trigger reset.

 

[jnb01]

tetchaje1, thank you!

I'm really looking forward to trying a Sig w/ the new trigger! I agree that the light DAO mode could well become the wave of the future. A "user friendly" trigger makes sense at any level of skill, but would seem even more beneficial for the non-enthusiast. Hopefully, the reset is not too long.

Regarding Glocks, I think that the short trigger travel to discharge plays a big role in ND's, as many LE Glocks are fitted with the NY-1 or NY-2 trigger. I do agree that the Glock design is not very forgiving of human error. However, lack of attention when handling any firearm is a recipe for disaster. Remember the female officer who had the ND w/ the Beretta and that loooooong DA 1st pull, coming all to close to both the suspect and her partner.

Best, jnb01

 

[George Hill]

Hmmm... An HK 2000 LEM for 400 bucks. I'd hit it.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Hmmm... An HK 2000 LEM for 400 bucks. I'd hit it.

Hahahahahahahaahaah

 

[Island Beretta]

I have seen NDs with practically most handguns design. Folks at city police stations will tell you it is not unusual for a daily discharge esp. during firearm licenses renewal period. I have seen someone blew a hole in a office partition with a S&W, only to say with a sheepish look, 'I thought the safety was on'. Now the S&Ws have the full monty of safeties and you still have an ND. A friend of mine shot himself with his Sig p228 when it fell and he attempted to catch it, guess what, his finger got into the trigger guard and when he gripped the gun, it fired.

I do not think any gun is more ND prone than any other. I have accidentally placed my finger in the Glock trigger guard and the resistance 'checked' me, I have also done the same with the Beretta and the resistance 'checked' me as well. We all just have to practice 'finger off trigger' and hope that when we err as humans we default to other rules of firearms safety such as 'gun not pointed at anyone or anything you are not willing to destroy.'

In my opinion, the HK LEM trigger, Sig short trigger, XD's USA trigger is just to make it more competitive with the Glock trigger setup which out of the box offers you an advantage in first shot speed and a consistent trigger pull whilst automatically reengaging safeties when finger is off trigger.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Damn you.

I really want one now.

Finding an FFL for an out-of-state ship-in

 

[clubsoda22]

compete with glock pricing....looks like i'll hold off on a USP tactical, because if i can get it for $600-700 instead of $900-1000...