HK91, M1A, or FN FAL?

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Which ever one you get. Be sure to get enough spare parts to last a few generations.

The price could go sky high or be unavailable cheap like they are now with no notice.

Just my opinion!
One is none and 2 is one.
 
This thread is still going?

Any of the three will work and do their job well.

Just going by how many countries used a rifle doesn't make it any better than another.

Whatever one you want basically just comes down to personal preference.
 
Ash, the US Army tested the M14 against the FAL (from 3 different manufacturers including FN) and it was more reliable.

Ash, the US Army tested the M14 against the FAL (from 3 different manufacturers including FN) and it was more reliable.

Ash, the US Army tested the M14 against the FAL (from 3 different manufacturers including FN) and it was more reliable.
 
Personally, I'd go with two rifles not on the list. The AR10 and the Saiga 308. The AR10 beats all the others when it comes to accuracy with better scope mounting, and ergonomics better than everything except for the FAL, and it costs less too. For a precision DMR type rifle, this would be my choice.

The Saiga is cheaper and more reliable than any of them and has similar accuracy to an FAL but is smaller and handier. For a beater EOTWAWKI rifle it's hard to beat.
 
get a FAL first, AR10 or M14 next. Forget about the HK, and the M1.

I LOVE my FAL and my AR10. The AR10 from DPMS has incredible accuracy with crappy ammo.
 
This subject comes up so often I should probably write a little piece to simply cut and paste.

The M1A is has sexy curves. The M1A is much more accurate at +200 yards than the FAL, both in stock configuration. The M1A is more ergonomically combat-adaptible - if your idea of combat is belly-crawling along the ground. And, Fudds will like you for not having an "assault weapon". Then again, your front sight is part of your flash suppressor, so if you damage your FS you need a gunsmith.

Now, on to the FAL. It has an adjustable gas system that can be adjusted to adapt to any kind of ammo within reason, anywhere in the world, straight up to grenade launching blanks. hot loads, light loads, no problem. The FAL can be stripped in about 25 seconds. I can do it in 40. The FAL has a much better grip angle, and you can actually carry it at the low ready while opening doors due to the pistol grip. The muzzle attachment on the FAL can easily be switched. Magazines are dirt cheap. Quality parts are easily available. But you won't need them since the FAL is damn near indesctructible.

Both guns are a PITA to scope properly, and will cost a pretty penny to do so.

A good M1A is about 60% more in cost than a good FAL. Parts and mags are at least double in cost.

Kev
 
Thanks for all the input, you guys have told me most of the things I wanted to know. Everyone has their opinion and for the most part they all agree:

- All of my choices would be a great MBR.

- The FAL is the most widely distrubuted and generally most reliable. It's easy to get parts for and work on but lacks the inherant tack-driver ability of the M14 or the AR.

- The G3/91 is a really tough gun that's also reliable but not as polished as some and is more difficult to customize. Genuine HKs are more expensive but the PTR is a reasonably priced and decent clone.

- The M14 is an American tradition with a more conventional rifle look. It's a good choice to accurize and the action is a strong as hell. Parts and mags are a little harder and more expensive to come by.

The AR is the most accurate and can be made even more so. Parts and manufacturers are on the rise and most are good quality. The downside on this rifle for me is still that I just really don't like the design (it's that whole "personal preference" thing, though I'm sure I'd still enjoy shooting it.)

Did I miss anything?

The bottom line is that none of them are lemons as long as I go with a decent manufacturer. I have purchased a kit from Gun Parts Guy and a Hesse receiver from someone else, but I'm probably going to let the receiver sit and wait for a cheap kit to build. I'm going to go ahead and order an STG-58 from DSA along with one of their type 1 receivers to build my kit with. Over the summer I'm probably going to get an M14 as well.

Anybody think I made a bad choice? (That was a rhetorical question.) I'm excited about it.
 
AndyC said:
The only bad choice was the Hesse receiver

It was cheap. I'm taking just about anything cheap I can find to stock up on. After what I believe is an impending new AWB the prices will boom even for crap. My DSA stuff will be for me, but I won't turn down anything reasonable. If anyone has some FAL stuff they'd like to part with, feel free to PM me.
 
I'd be interested in waiting to see if the Magpul Massoud is any good... Oooh I'm shaking in excitement!
 
Strange, but those were the 3 choices I was agonizing over about 20 years ago. The forged receiver of the FAL won out over the steel stampings of the HK-91. But as I entered the show, decided on seeking out the SAR-48, I saw that M1A. They were the same price back then, $645. I spent about an hour at the guy's table; I think he sold about 5 guns after I got there and before I left. I did buy the SAR-48, and have never been sorry. I got the Heavy Barrel version with wooden furniture
 
I have all four guns and here is what it boils down to, the M1A has better sights and trigger, better inherent accuracy and will function reliably with most all commercial or surplus ammo, mags and parts are ungodly expensive, scope mounts shoot loose and those long goofy op rods WILL break.
FN FAL -so so trigger and sights, better upgrades are available though, very cheap parts and mags, will function reliably with most all commercial and surplus ammo, adjustable gas system lets you tune the rifle for atmospheric and ammunition variables and is very reliable under adverse conditions.
HK G3/91- lighter that m1a and fal, fewer parts, very cheap mags, replacement parts can be expensive, will require more attention due to rollers, locking piece and trunnion wearing, poor trigger and can be very unreliable with some surplus ammo due to the bullet sealant clogging up the chamber flutes fairly quickly.
AR10- good sights,trigger and excellent accuracy, expensive mags and parts and the gas system tends to not be the most reliable under adverse conditions, more of a target rifle than a battle rifle.
 
Depends on what you want.

HK91 and clones are UBER reliable and unkillable. FAL, on another hand, has some problems with sand, as israelis discovered (and adopted an AK based rifle). M14 is simply overrated. Plain and simple. Furthermore, the Springfield ones have some issues with receivers sometimes. Though not often.
I WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO ADMIT that M1A comes with the best sights out of the box and thus more accurate.
Here is something for you to consider:
C-91 - HK 91 clone. Bought last July. Uber accurate and eats any ammo $600
L1A1 Sporter. Bought this March. Less accurate and eats any ammo $635.
Springfield M1A. $1400 and therefore not bought.

I got TWO reliable rifles for less then M1A would cost me.
 
But apples, man, apples. The modernized M14 compared to an unmodernized rifle in its design of 50 years earlier. Come on. Use your head.

I don't know. I think it is just as fair to compare modernized M14s to unmodernized M14s as it is to compare modernized ARs to unmodernized ARs of 40+ years ago.

As to numbers to numbers, the argument is absurd. The FAL was adopted by vastly more nations than the M14 even after Taiwan received the equipment to produce the m14. Taiwan was unable to flood the market with m14's even though they made them available. When two rifles of the same type, main battle rifles, are compared, numbers, when they are so utterly lop-sided, do provide support to the argement that the FAL was the better combat rifle.

Bandied numbers comparing an assault rifle to the FAL go only so far. As assault rifles, the AK was VASTLY better than the FAL. The FAL, like the M14, are miserable assault rifles. When you have the SKS, FAL, M14, BM-59, FN-49, or AK available, which one, do you suppose, would be considered the best assault rifle? And the numbers will that out.

The AR is a better overall rifle than the AK. In that way, numbers begin to fail as supporting arguments. The AK is better in unsupported areas, the AR is superior for the professional soldier. So, among the nations with professional soldiers which one is issued more, the AK or the AR? The AR, of course. Thus, total production or adoption cannot be used.

Blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Basically then the numbers can only be used when they support your argument. Any time the numbers do not support your argument, they are invalid, even if the AR arguably never achieved popularity for some of the same reasons as the M14--namely, being comparatively more expensive and difficult to manufacture.

And I don't think Andrewsky ever meant to insinuate that the M14 was distributed in larger numbers than the FAL, just that is was distributed in slightly larger numbers than you originally gave it credit for, and credit is due where credit is due.

Right now, of the three, I tend to favor the M14/M1A over the other two, with the FAL coming in second. The G3 and clones would be tied for last with the AR and its clones. I have an M1A and am currently trying to claw together enough money for a DS Arms Para FAL.

As I've said before, the M1A will appeal to the rifleman in you. If you identify yourself as a rifleman, the M1A speaks to you in a way few other rifles can. The M1A is built by and for riflemen, and to that end, everything is where it should be. The sights, trigger, balance, and ergonomics are all top notch. The rifle is comfortable to shoulder and to shoot. I love my M1A in an almost unhealthy way. It is the only thing that I own that I would run into a burning building to save. Sure, it might be harder to scope and clean, and more expensive than some alternatives, but these are, IMO, minor deficiencies compared to how the rifle feels at the shoulder and shoots. The sights are so good I currently have no plans to scope it, the rifle doesn't require constant maintenance to run and the only thing that has to be cleaned on a regular basis is the gas system. Just use the tool or a 3/8 inch wrench, wipe down the gas system, run a cable with a brush through the bore a couple times, and reassemble, and you're done. You don't even have to take it out of the stock but once in a great while. And this is one of those cases where I feel you get what you pay for--the M1A is, for me, worth the cost. And this is all an unmodernized, cast receiver Springfield. I can't imagine how cherry an SEI must be...

M1AandMilSpec2.jpg

The FAL is fine, but as a lefty isn't quite as ergonomic for me. I would prefer an ambi-safety, which is an option I am utilizing from DS Arms, and one reason why my FAL is going to be more expensive than my M1A. I have a lot of respect for the FAL and something tells me when I finally get my hands on one, asking me to decide between it and my M1A is going to be like asking me to choose my favorite child, or decide which lung I can do without.

The G3 isn't nearly as ergonomic for me. It doesn't have the balance. By most reports it has more felt recoil than the other models and can be a PITA to clean. The triggers on the ones I've held were terrible. A roller lock clone would require a paddle style magazine release conversion and a trigger job be factored into the initial cost of the rifle. The sights were okay, but not as good as the M1As. Like paying $800 for a polymer framed handgun with a crappy trigger just because it was designed by HK and therefore somehow makes the user elite, I don't see how it makes any sense to pay $800+ for a stamped receiver rifle with a crappy trigger just because it was designed by HK and therefore somehow makes the user elite.

And I despise the AR. Ergos are fine and I know I can keep them running. But they just don't feel right to me. The sound and operate like cartoons to me. And I know I've said that before as well. I just could never get over the SPOING sound of the buffer tube assembly next to my head. It makes the AR feel like an ACME rocket Wiley Coyote would use, and if I never have to clean another AR star chamber again, it will be too soon.
 
The M1a is my current rifle of choice in 308, but I've owned just about every variety of 7.62x51mm battle rifle. I like MTMilitiaman's comment about it being the rifleman's rifle. I like the feel and the trigger and sights are imcomparable. My AR-10 will shoot rings around it, but i still like it better. I found the FAL to be a fine rifle hampered by poor sights and trigger, and lacking the accuracy of the M1A . Then again, the M1A has a whole histopry of being accurized for match shooting and several manufacturers make barrels and other accessories. The FAL doesn't have this advantage, with most parts being either surplus military or aftermarket items purely to make FAL 922R compliant.

I never saw the appeal of the HK rifles or their clones. I've owned a few, and their ergonomics suck. They are a triumph of mass production and were probably popular because for their day they we much less costly than any other western made battle rifle

The FAL is undoubtably more widely distributed than the M1A/M15 because the US and Springfield Armory (the real one) never sought foreign contracts, while FAL sought to sell the FAL to as many countries as possible. It really had little to do with design

I personally find the adjustable gas system to be less of a 'feature' and more of a 'fix'. The constant volume gas system of the M14 allows it to shoot a wide variety of ammunition without adjustment, although the variation are admittedly much narrower than the M14/M1A.

If you plan to leave the rife as is, any of the three rifles mentioned are fine. Pick what you like and that feels good.

If you ever plan on tarting your rifle up, stay away from the HK. It is a pain to work on and their aren't the add-on of the other two. If you want to accurize your rifle, there are far more options and smiths that will work on the M14/M1a than the other rifles.

Good luck.
 
Read the poster.

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Another Variant

An earlier post by tpelle mentioned an M1 Garand as a proven option and the advantages of its enbloc system.

As an option, you can buy an M1 Garand, rebarrel it to .308, use a spacer in the feed system (to avoid charging a 30-06 round) and you've got a completely reliable, durable, and accurate rifle.

The cost will be the rifle (~600-700), barrel (~$200-300), and gunsmith (~$100).

I've had this done twice and not looked back. Best thing to do is shoot an M1 Garand and see how you like it before modifying to .308.
 
With the comparatively low cost of .30-06 Greek M2 ball surplus and the utter lack of cheap surplus for the 7.62x51, I have no idea why someone would want to convert a Garand to .308--at least not now. Maybe in the future when we get some relatively cheap surplus back for it, but not now.
 
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