1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Home Defense Question

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Cyborg, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. Cyborg

    Cyborg New Member

    I do not presently own any long guns but am looking at getting one or more shoulder weapons for home defense and would like to pick the brains of the folks here. I have two basic questions.

    1) Where/how could I acquire a (not necessarily new) M1A (or equivalent) for home defense. I like the ability of the steel jacketed 7.62mm to penetrate one side of a vehicle but not the other. I'm not worried about 1000yd accuracy, 200-300 yds is plenty. I am also leery of the M1 and Garand because of their limited magazine size and lack of ease of reloading. What can you folks tell me?

    2) I am looking at one of the semi-auto carbines that shoot pistol ammo for intermediate range work - further than the tactical ranges that I'd use my Glock or Baby Eagle for but closer than the 7.62. Wouldn't I get better accuracy at 25-100yds and good stopping power with a carbine firing the same .40S&W that my Glock and Baby Eagle use?

    You guys are MUCH smarter about weapons than I am.

    HOLY DIVER New Member

    YEAH a rifle will shoot a .40 more accurate than a pistol now don't go wanting it to shoot 7/8 the way through a car! my personal rec. would be a AK or SKS
  3. gvnwst

    gvnwst New Member

    For a rifle, a AR or AK sounds more suited to your uses than a larger M!A. FOr a carbine, Kel tec's Sub-2000 and beretta's storm carbine are both good choices.
  4. RP88

    RP88 New Member

    your best bet is gonna be an AR15 (14.5-16" carbine).

    your best bet for the money is gonna be a pump shotgun.

    Niether are too bad on pentration.
  5. Bearhands

    Bearhands New Member

    Home Defense @ 2-300 yards? Shooting through cars?! Where is your home man?!
  6. woodfiend

    woodfiend New Member

    First off, 7.62 NATO doesn't use steel jackets. The only manufacturer that may do that is WOLF. Not sure there. In addition, I think 7.62 NATO would go through the whole car anyway as long as it didn't hit the engine block. The only ammo that might do this would have to be mushrooming hunting ammo or expanding hollowpoints and such. Even then, there is no guarantee. Second, the M1 and the Garand are the same rifle.
  7. SCMtns

    SCMtns New Member

    I have an M1A Scout myself, but I can't say I'd recommend it for home defense. It even says in the owner's manual that it would be a poor choice for home defense or "neighborhood patrol," which made me laugh out loud when I read it. 7.62 is a great choice for a lot of things at 200-300 yds, but at that range it's not home defense, it's hunting or sniping. (Unless we're invaded, I suppose, but who'd be crazy enough to do that?)

    You'd be better off picking up something in .223 or 12 gauge, as others here are recommending, and maybe eventually picking up an M1A as a less likely to be useful but so damn fun choice. If I were to reach for a long gun in any sort of home defense scenario, it'd be either my Ruger Mini-14 or my Benelli 12-ga pump. If I lived in a free state, it'd be an AR-15 M4gery. The people who make gun laws in California know almost nothing about guns, so they think I can't be trusted with a semi-auto if it's black and has a pistol grip. Hopefully wherever you live, those people work in libraries rather than in government.

    You might also want to consider that if you ever use a weapon in self-defense, the cops are almost certain to take it away for a good while, and possibly forever. Depends on where you live and how the situation shakes out. Think how you'd feel if the cops took your $1500 battle rifle instead of your $300 12-ga pump. Save the battle rifle for 1) the range and 2) a hypothetical end-of-the-world scenario in which you no longer have to worry about what the police and the courts think, if you care to prepare for such an unlikely event.

    Edited to add: google up a site called waterboxotruth.com to see how many things will go all the way through a car. I think that particular one is called the Buick o' Truth.
  8. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued New Member

    This was my question as well... :scrutiny:
  9. Cyborg

    Cyborg New Member

    A couple of guys asked about 2-300 yds and home defense. I was thinking of defending my family's compound in central New Mexico. Pistols and a scattergun (loaded with flechette rounds?) and even the pistol caliber carbine would be OK for meeting them at the gate but what if I wanted to post someone up on the wind turbine tower a couple of hundred yards away from the road? How well would an M1 do for that? And there is still the magazine capacity issue. IIRC, standard issue M1 had a 5rd internal mag. If the fertilizer impacted the wind machine wouldn't it be better to have the M1A's larger capacity, quickly replacable mag? My son (a vet of the 1st trip to the sandbox) has neighbors who share a lot of our beliefs about individual freedoms and who have already agreed to band together should everything go into the toilet. I might NEED something to reach out and touch someone with at 300yds or better but it would still be home defense.

    As for the 7.62 not being able to exit a vehicle, I have heard that from many sources - most notably my son. He had a close encounter of the unpleasant kind with an empty blue bus of the sort that the Iraquis used to move troops around in '91. He and some of his 88mike buddies had been dismounted and put on foot patrol. Ray was on point when he came accross the bus. Frakking thing (hope Granny isn't a BG fan) started shooting at him. He happened to be humping that 7.62 light machine gun that was the follow-on to the Nam era M60. After pouring a couple hundred rounds into the side of the bus and then emptying all his .223 ammo, he pulled the .45 I sent him and kicked open the door of the bus. Not a creature was stirring - not even a louse. Final score Ray-14, Iraqi bus-0. He told me that it looked like all his rounds had bounced around inside. IMS he got a ribbon with a little metal star for that activity.
  10. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Active Member


    For 7.62 rifles the detachable magazine is certainly a nice feature and among the better candidates are the M1A , FAL, AR10 (or that style). The old M1 Garand actualy is an 8 round clip feed and not a bad choice either.

    For handgun cartridge carbines look perhaps at Kel-Tec , Hi-Point, Beretta . These are made in 9mm, .40S&W, and Beretta at least in .45 Auto

    Penitration is a matter that has several factors involved. The 7.62 Nato round can easily penitrate through area's of regular cars and light trucks. Note I say area's because there are area's that have heavier or more metal , and then there is the angles, and the distance from the muzzle, etc.
  11. C-grunt

    C-grunt New Member

    Dont count out the AR15. With the green tip M855 rounds, current issue, you should have no problems in the penetration department. In fact gov. studies say it penetrates more at a few hundred yards than the 7.62.

    If you want the 7.62 though, I gotta agree with mnrivrat above that the M1A, FAL, AR10 and Ill add the G3/HK91/Cetme rifles would all be a great choice.

    That machine gun your son was carrying is called the M240. I loved that gun when I was in. Tell your son good job for me.
  12. gvnwst

    gvnwst New Member

    AR is your best bet. Accurate for cheap (compared to the M1) and has enough penetration. IIRC, most M1s are heavier than the AR, and so a guard ina tower probably would like the AR better. That and thefact that if he blotches a shot, follow up is quicker. Also able to put out more rounds more quickly, if the need arises.

    Buckshot (or fletchetts) would be fine for a shotgun, most will recomend a 870, the standard of shotguns.
  13. Rifleman 173

    Rifleman 173 New Member

  14. zombienerd

    zombienerd New Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2008
  15. foghornl

    foghornl New Member

    The US Rifle Cal .30 M1, popularly known as "The Garand" uses an 8-round 'En-Bloc' clip. The clip is ejected after the last round is fired, and bolt stays open. I can reload my M1 Garand faster than any other rifle I own. (I'm not too shabby with the 10-round stripper clips for my SKS, but the M1 is faster.)

    For "Pistol-Caliber-Carbine/Rifle" things, there are a bunch out there... 9mm, .40, .45ACP (used only, no one currently offers an auto-loader carbine in .45ACP) Lever-action guns open up more choices... .357Mag or .44Mag or .45Colt. Non-Pistol caliber choices are even more available.. .30/30, .35Rem, .45-70 .444Marlin, and many others.
  16. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    From Cyborg:
    Suggest you get some legal advice on what kind of shooting situation involving shooting at a vehicle and/or at such a distance might constitute justifiable homicide.

    Personally, I cannot visualize any in the U. S.

    Let us know what you find out.
  17. ProCarryNAustin

    ProCarryNAustin New Member

    I read through your scenario a couple of times. No offense, but if that actually comes to pass the first thing you will find out is that the other guys will be able to bring bigger toys to the party than you will be able to get ahold of.

    Just a thought.

    Austin, Texas
  18. woodfiend

    woodfiend New Member

    "As for the 7.62 not being able to exit a vehicle, I have heard that from many sources - most notably my son. He had a close encounter of the unpleasant kind with an empty blue bus of the sort that the Iraquis used to move troops around in '91."

    Ok, a bus is completely different from a car. Is your "compound" going to be attacked by BGs with Iraqi troop carriers.
  19. JDoe

    JDoe New Member

    What is your budget?

    How much $$ do you have available for these purchases (including ammo)?

    How many people would you be arming?
  20. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical New Member

Share This Page