Home Invasion Tactics
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rbernie
Contributing Member
This is the primary reason that I detest, and refuse to live in, a 'MBR down, rest upstairs' kind of arrangement.
For what it's worth - a friend and I walked thru this exercise recently for his new house. We drew up floorplans and walked thru a number of options. We resorted to simple JPG pics because words could just not convey the necessary info.
He has all BRs upstairs, as shown:
Ultimately, he chose the room layout (bed locations) shown, and the stars identify his thoughts on basic options for defensive positions.
The bathroom position gives him concealment, but it takes the longest to reach from the MBR and it offers limited mobility. Essentially, he's trapped once he's in there. He does, however, command the high ground and nobody can make it up the stairs without addressing his existance. He also has a great backstop, in the form of the concrete slab at the base of the stairs.
Moving outside of the bathroom to the upstairs landing gives him more mobility options, but he's not as well concealed and his shooting position is more constrained.
It was noted in our discussions that the kids bed locations against the inner wall may present some concern if return fire comes up the stairs, but he really wanted the kids off the front facade wall. He also wanted them away from the transverse hall vector, because doing so offered an additional defensive position down the hall. Using the stairwell landing defensive position offers the best defense of the entirety of the stairs, and ensures that return fire (if any) is directed away from the kids rooms as best possible.
Moving the defensive position laterally down the hall allows him to cover the top of the stairwell and give him a retreat position from the 'down the stairwell' vantage points. It isn't optimal since he'll only have snap sight pictures of anyone coming up the stairs, but it offers significant concealment and a retreat position in the event of multiple intruders. The backstop for this position is the brick facade of the house.
As far as I know, his plan is as follows: his wife calls 911 and takes up a defensive posture in the MBR while he grabs iron and hot-foots it to the stairwell landing to cover access to the stairs. If pressured, he drops back to the position down the hallway.
Corporal K
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No plan survives first contact with the enemy. But, planning, decisiveness, and fluidity will go a lot farther than not.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Bonus points for knowing who said that, and when.
My tactics are as such: First the only way to come into my home at night with cover is the back door. Upon entry the bad guy will come upon a angry chihuaha attacking at the ankle just like my dog chico does to me for some odd reason. Then I being awaken by the noise gets up waking my wife up and having her dial 911. I dont believe in waking my kids due to the fact that they will probably be pissed off and i know where they sleep and i dont want to give away position. All three rooms are at the end of the hall way leading to the livingroom, I will be in between the bg and my family. I will arm myself with my g23 crouching low to the ground (cause I dont think he would look for a 3 ft profile on the ground) and staying outta of the light casted by my street lights I will sit and wait for the bg to either leave my home or Chico to bite his ankle to death or for the bg guy to enter the living room to where I will defend my family. Those are my tactics I do not wish to engage the Bg for fear of return fire, I dont think my stuff is worth my life. After the Bg forces me to use deadly force i will contact my lawyer.
No plan survives first contact with the enemy. But, planning, decisiveness, and fluidity will go a lot farther than not.
Or my favorite, all is fine till the first shot is fired... Then it all goes to crap!
We have a nice little Town House, end unit of 4, the stairs go north for 7 steps, nice 1m square landing, right turn, same size landing, turn right again, final 3 steps to second floor.
How feasible would it be to build a fence of wrought iron, with gate, to block access to second floor, even use the same 1" square hollow metal bars so as to have the same look to the framework, that already is on the stairs, the unlocking bar in master bedroom. Nothing is required from ground floor till breakfast calls.
Sliding glass doors give access to balcony (hurricane film covered glass) then gradual slope of the garage roof, 9ft drop to drive.
Or my favorite, all is fine till the first shot is fired... Then it all goes to crap!
We have a nice little Town House, end unit of 4, the stairs go north for 7 steps, nice 1m square landing, right turn, same size landing, turn right again, final 3 steps to second floor.
How feasible would it be to build a fence of wrought iron, with gate, to block access to second floor, even use the same 1" square hollow metal bars so as to have the same look to the framework, that already is on the stairs, the unlocking bar in master bedroom. Nothing is required from ground floor till breakfast calls.
Sliding glass doors give access to balcony (hurricane film covered glass) then gradual slope of the garage roof, 9ft drop to drive.
And lots of one level new house plans are coming with the master suite across the house from the rest of the bedrooms. I understand the practicalities of it, but every time I look at one I think "you got nothing but bad options when you hear a bump in the night in that house".
That's also way I'm a big fan of vestibules, with a lockable door or a gate on either end. It chews up some floor space in a typical houseplan, but also means that a) two doors have to be defeated before someone has access to the interior, b) looks like a fancy front mudroom, acts like an immediate and defensible chokepoint, and c) gunloops on the interior side probably just ruin the day of a guy that just kicked in the exterior door.
rbernie
Contributing Member
We kept our child gates in place, screwed to the walls at the bottom and top of the stairs, ostensibly to keep the dogs from going upstairs uninvited (since they like to pee on the carpet in front of the litterbox).
In the dark, anyone not familiar with their presence is gonna make a heckova racket trying to move thru them. They *will* slow you down.
In the dark, anyone not familiar with their presence is gonna make a heckova racket trying to move thru them. They *will* slow you down.
rbernie
Contributing Member
By the way:
This quote is usually attributed to Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke, the father of modern logistics-based warfare.
RBERNIE, In your friends situation, a locking full height gate at the head of the stairs would trap the intruders in the stairwell. A video camera aimed down the stairwell with display in the MB would allow surveillance. A strobe and siren would really add to the uneasy factor!.
Without knowing the wall and floor structures, composition, floor plan and window arrangements I can only make a few general comments.
Rather than be cornered in the bedroom I would plan on engaging or blocking them as near to their point of entry as possible. Otherwise you are going get cornered. Unless you have masonry walls and concrete floors, once your location is narrowed to one room upstairs they can shoot through doors, sheetrock stud walls and also up through the floors without exposing themselves to your direct fire.
I would work on making doors and windows inpenetrable without heavy tools, alot of noise and a period of minutes. Steel door and window frames - steel doors (you can face them with nice wood or whatever you please), and steel lined window shutters. These can all be made to open easily from the inside in case of fire, and rope ladders with anchor points located in the master and childrens' bedrooms. That, a couple of plans, making sure the children know what to do if they are cut off in their room(s) by fire.
A master control switch for all downstairs lighting could deprive your antagonists of light - while sets of floodlights directed away from your points of travel towards them in upper hallway and down the staircase activated from the master bedroom them would give you advantage. You could add bright directional strobes which would hinder them even more.
Regardless, I would have a good AR with a 20 - 30 rounder + two loaded spares - or a good 20, 16 or 12 gauge pump, or autoloader with a bag, belt or bandolier of extra shells - and a pistol - handy. Powerful flashlights (off unless absolutely needed) like Streamlight or SureFire, and a telescoping inspection mirror can be useful.
Wake wife with a predetermined one word alert; like "bandits". She takes up her weapon(s) and phone to children; protecting them and calling police. You advance as far as deemed reasonable to sounds of entry. Block or engage as necessary.
Keep all interior doors, except bedrooms if you prefer, open at night to ensure the longest line of vision. If you see a door closed that should be open then you know someone might be on the other side of it. Have mirrors and or other reflective objects placed in halls and rooms to cover blind spots and corners.
Have a plan B, C, etc. If you awake to noise advancing rapidly upstairs or in the upper hallway then you have the choice of sitting tight or engaging them right off. Tough choice and yours to make.
A dog is a good alarm.
Rather than be cornered in the bedroom I would plan on engaging or blocking them as near to their point of entry as possible. Otherwise you are going get cornered. Unless you have masonry walls and concrete floors, once your location is narrowed to one room upstairs they can shoot through doors, sheetrock stud walls and also up through the floors without exposing themselves to your direct fire.
I would work on making doors and windows inpenetrable without heavy tools, alot of noise and a period of minutes. Steel door and window frames - steel doors (you can face them with nice wood or whatever you please), and steel lined window shutters. These can all be made to open easily from the inside in case of fire, and rope ladders with anchor points located in the master and childrens' bedrooms. That, a couple of plans, making sure the children know what to do if they are cut off in their room(s) by fire.
A master control switch for all downstairs lighting could deprive your antagonists of light - while sets of floodlights directed away from your points of travel towards them in upper hallway and down the staircase activated from the master bedroom them would give you advantage. You could add bright directional strobes which would hinder them even more.
Regardless, I would have a good AR with a 20 - 30 rounder + two loaded spares - or a good 20, 16 or 12 gauge pump, or autoloader with a bag, belt or bandolier of extra shells - and a pistol - handy. Powerful flashlights (off unless absolutely needed) like Streamlight or SureFire, and a telescoping inspection mirror can be useful.
Wake wife with a predetermined one word alert; like "bandits". She takes up her weapon(s) and phone to children; protecting them and calling police. You advance as far as deemed reasonable to sounds of entry. Block or engage as necessary.
Keep all interior doors, except bedrooms if you prefer, open at night to ensure the longest line of vision. If you see a door closed that should be open then you know someone might be on the other side of it. Have mirrors and or other reflective objects placed in halls and rooms to cover blind spots and corners.
Have a plan B, C, etc. If you awake to noise advancing rapidly upstairs or in the upper hallway then you have the choice of sitting tight or engaging them right off. Tough choice and yours to make.
A dog is a good alarm.
EOTechRulesAll
member
buck00-
I never answer the door without a gun, and I can go to my kitchen and see along the entire side of the house which is situated away from the door but along the garage (the only real place people could hide if they were approaching the front-door but wanted to hide).
I never answer the door without a gun, and I can go to my kitchen and see along the entire side of the house which is situated away from the door but along the garage (the only real place people could hide if they were approaching the front-door but wanted to hide).
EOTechRulesAll
member
LAK-
Would you be opposed to using CS canisters to deny them use of large portions of your house? I have a few CS canisters that I keep in pouches mounted on my tactical armor, so I could have my dad cover the only access point to the upstairs (one stairwell) while I mask up, then I cover him while he masks up, then he covers me while I deploy a canister down the stairs. After 60-90 seconds, if somebody is still there, we can slice the pie as we proceed down the stairs an engage the bad-guys with rifle and shotgun fire.
Would you be opposed to using CS canisters to deny them use of large portions of your house? I have a few CS canisters that I keep in pouches mounted on my tactical armor, so I could have my dad cover the only access point to the upstairs (one stairwell) while I mask up, then I cover him while he masks up, then he covers me while I deploy a canister down the stairs. After 60-90 seconds, if somebody is still there, we can slice the pie as we proceed down the stairs an engage the bad-guys with rifle and shotgun fire.
Is there any DIY for making "grenades" from pepper-sprays?
Would be neat, to be able to flood downstairs with that stuff.
(And way better law-wise, than grabbing an AK47 to shoot through your own flooorboards.)
Or even a hidden spray nozzle-array on your doorframe, with an unsuspecting lever/switch for you to hit, when the BG are at your door?
Would be neat, to be able to flood downstairs with that stuff.
(And way better law-wise, than grabbing an AK47 to shoot through your own flooorboards.)
Or even a hidden spray nozzle-array on your doorframe, with an unsuspecting lever/switch for you to hit, when the BG are at your door?
EOTechRulesAll
member
MP7-
Why bother making grenades from pepper-spray? That might be illegal. What is not illegal (depending on your state/locality) are CS gas canisters that are not explosive in their method of deployment/operation.
Why bother making grenades from pepper-spray? That might be illegal. What is not illegal (depending on your state/locality) are CS gas canisters that are not explosive in their method of deployment/operation.
Step 1:
Make home as physically secure as you can afford. Better locks, stronger doors, alarms, motion activated lights, etc.
Step 2:
Stay away from the criminal element. Associating with them can give them the idea to come after you. Plus that is how they can gather intelligence to use in the home invasion.
Step 3:
Now it is OK to worry about guns and such, but you probably won't have to if you abide by previous steps.
Make home as physically secure as you can afford. Better locks, stronger doors, alarms, motion activated lights, etc.
Step 2:
Stay away from the criminal element. Associating with them can give them the idea to come after you. Plus that is how they can gather intelligence to use in the home invasion.
Step 3:
Now it is OK to worry about guns and such, but you probably won't have to if you abide by previous steps.
EOTechRulesAll
member
M1911-
I deployed a canister in my garage once (I know, very stupid of me, long-story short, I wanted to get rid of some wildlife and firearms in the garage are out of the question, I won't bore folks with the story)... It didn't limit visibility too much. I do have enough gas-masks for myself, everybody who lives in my house, and the few oddball buddies who might show up when the townspeople begin turning into zombies ( ) but I don't know if many/any of them are trained to fight with a gas-mask on.
I know I am not trained to fight with on one, not formally. The most I've ever done was wear one around for an hour, with my combat load and gear, just to get a feel for it. As I'm sure you either know or could guess, it is damn hot and uncomfortable in that thing.
In such close quarters, how much could it possibly impact my ability to identify and hit a target? Remember, we're talking a matter of 10-20 feet away (maximum distance).
Also, as far as training to fight in a CS rich environment, where would I go for this (short of the US military) where I could obtain such training, legally, as a civilian?
Even still, if it came to it today and I had to mask up, have my dad mask up, and deploy a canister. Wouldn't we be at an advantage over the attackers who wouldn't even have gas-masks, let alone have even so much as a basic idea as to how to handle the situation?
For now though, I'm just going to rely on situational awareness, observing my animals for any odd behavior, and my doors/windows, to provide the few seconds of time I need to get ready to repulse/blunt any attack.
Home invaders most certainly will have the initiative, since they decide when they are going to attack. The key to any defense (as I see it and as many military leaders in history seemed to see it) is that you blunt the first attack as quickly as possible and take the fight to the enemy. You want to seize the initiative away from them, and take the fight to them. But, never underestimate the effectiveness of letting them blunder themselves into your defenses. Just when they think you're on the run, they run smack into your concealed 88mm anti-armor positions (well maybe in 1942 North Africa, not in my house, but you get the idea).
I want to equip myself as soon as possible when the door (or window) comes crashing in. I always have a pistol on my person and usually a rifle by my side. Being equipped means at the least being able to oppose them and offer them lethal resistance. Ideally it means putting my armor on and obtaining a long-gun for my father as well (he always has at least a pistol), and even better, also having him armor up.
If somebody just burst into my house right now, it wouldn't take me but a few seconds to have a magazine emptied into their body/head, or to have my dad give them the same. If there was a gang or I had some sort of 20-30 second notice, I'd have my main rifle ready, a backup laid out nearby, and I'd be wearing my armor, helmet, and I'd be in a good position. Hell, I might even be able to get that done in 15 seconds.
I'm going to think on what you said and probably will discount CS as a tool to use against home invaders. However, what do you think about dummy frag grenades? If I keep one near my bed, I have a perfect angle to toss one out into the hallway and down the stairs. If bad guys were coming up the stairs, do you think the sudden sight of a hand grenade (they wouldn't immediately know it was a dummy) landing next to them would cause them to run and dive for cover, buying me at least 5-10 seconds?
I deployed a canister in my garage once (I know, very stupid of me, long-story short, I wanted to get rid of some wildlife and firearms in the garage are out of the question, I won't bore folks with the story)... It didn't limit visibility too much. I do have enough gas-masks for myself, everybody who lives in my house, and the few oddball buddies who might show up when the townspeople begin turning into zombies (
) but I don't know if many/any of them are trained to fight with a gas-mask on. I know I am not trained to fight with on one, not formally. The most I've ever done was wear one around for an hour, with my combat load and gear, just to get a feel for it. As I'm sure you either know or could guess, it is damn hot and uncomfortable in that thing.
In such close quarters, how much could it possibly impact my ability to identify and hit a target? Remember, we're talking a matter of 10-20 feet away (maximum distance).
Also, as far as training to fight in a CS rich environment, where would I go for this (short of the US military) where I could obtain such training, legally, as a civilian?
Even still, if it came to it today and I had to mask up, have my dad mask up, and deploy a canister. Wouldn't we be at an advantage over the attackers who wouldn't even have gas-masks, let alone have even so much as a basic idea as to how to handle the situation?
For now though, I'm just going to rely on situational awareness, observing my animals for any odd behavior, and my doors/windows, to provide the few seconds of time I need to get ready to repulse/blunt any attack.
Home invaders most certainly will have the initiative, since they decide when they are going to attack. The key to any defense (as I see it and as many military leaders in history seemed to see it) is that you blunt the first attack as quickly as possible and take the fight to the enemy. You want to seize the initiative away from them, and take the fight to them. But, never underestimate the effectiveness of letting them blunder themselves into your defenses. Just when they think you're on the run, they run smack into your concealed 88mm anti-armor positions (well maybe in 1942 North Africa, not in my house, but you get the idea).
I want to equip myself as soon as possible when the door (or window) comes crashing in. I always have a pistol on my person and usually a rifle by my side. Being equipped means at the least being able to oppose them and offer them lethal resistance. Ideally it means putting my armor on and obtaining a long-gun for my father as well (he always has at least a pistol), and even better, also having him armor up.
If somebody just burst into my house right now, it wouldn't take me but a few seconds to have a magazine emptied into their body/head, or to have my dad give them the same. If there was a gang or I had some sort of 20-30 second notice, I'd have my main rifle ready, a backup laid out nearby, and I'd be wearing my armor, helmet, and I'd be in a good position. Hell, I might even be able to get that done in 15 seconds.
I'm going to think on what you said and probably will discount CS as a tool to use against home invaders. However, what do you think about dummy frag grenades? If I keep one near my bed, I have a perfect angle to toss one out into the hallway and down the stairs. If bad guys were coming up the stairs, do you think the sudden sight of a hand grenade (they wouldn't immediately know it was a dummy) landing next to them would cause them to run and dive for cover, buying me at least 5-10 seconds?
rbernie
Contributing Member
It also makes egress in the event of a fire rather problematic.
Never make your castle so impenetrable that you can't get out in a hurry.
EOTech: If you are going to use the CS gas and mask, at the very least take your mask and gun with you to the range and practice with it. With a long gun in particular, the mask will change your cheek weld. Last I looked at an Army manual, it showed the soldiers canting their rifle to see the sights.
One more thing, have you done fit testing of all of your masks? And how long will your canisters last before you get breakthrough and you start breathing in the CS through the mask?
One more thing, have you done fit testing of all of your masks? And how long will your canisters last before you get breakthrough and you start breathing in the CS through the mask?
EOTechRulesAll
member
I believe my masks can withstand several hours of CS gas, less than 20-30 minute of nerve gas, and an hour or so with blood and blister agents.
My mask fits, and I once used it in a CS rich environment, it worked fine.
As for using my rifle with a mask, I have an Eotech and plan to use it for close combat encounters in my house.
I've also thought about getting some sort of green or red laser on my AR15.
I probably ought to switch the mask I use and get one with the filter on the side, rather than one with the filter that is in the front and sticks down, you know what I mean?
My mask fits, and I once used it in a CS rich environment, it worked fine.
As for using my rifle with a mask, I have an Eotech and plan to use it for close combat encounters in my house.
I've also thought about getting some sort of green or red laser on my AR15.
I probably ought to switch the mask I use and get one with the filter on the side, rather than one with the filter that is in the front and sticks down, you know what I mean?
I'd like to remind everyone to read the thread that is stickied at the top of this subforum; Reality in Strategies and Tactics before they post again.
I'm not going to see threads dragged into fantasy land with discussion of using CS gas in the event you have an an intruder in your home. All of the nonexplosive options for deploying CS involve a dispenser that burns to create the gas. It's a good way to burn your house down, and I rather doubt if your homeowner's insurance is going to cover your loss. The explosive options the M25 series of military grenades dispense CS in a microfine powder that gets into everything. You'd never live in that house again, and once again, I don't see your homeowner's insurance covering your losses in a case where you deliberately made your house uninhabitable.
I'm not even going to get into the liability issues when the sinus clearing smell of the CS wafts across the street and runs your neighbors out of their house..
This was once a productive discussion, but it's over now.
Jeff
I'm not going to see threads dragged into fantasy land with discussion of using CS gas in the event you have an an intruder in your home. All of the nonexplosive options for deploying CS involve a dispenser that burns to create the gas. It's a good way to burn your house down, and I rather doubt if your homeowner's insurance is going to cover your loss. The explosive options the M25 series of military grenades dispense CS in a microfine powder that gets into everything. You'd never live in that house again, and once again, I don't see your homeowner's insurance covering your losses in a case where you deliberately made your house uninhabitable.
I'm not even going to get into the liability issues when the sinus clearing smell of the CS wafts across the street and runs your neighbors out of their house..
This was once a productive discussion, but it's over now.
Jeff
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