Hornady Die Set Frustration

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GunAdmirer

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I bought a set of Hornady .45 ACP and .40 S&W pistol die sets recently. After a couple of hours of frustration and some ruined brass cases, I realized the sets come with the ROLL crimp. You have to buy a separate taper crimp die for autoloading cartridges. A call to Hornady confirmed my revelation.

I bought Hornady dies because they were a little cheaper than RCBS at Cabela's. They are not a good value if you have to buy an additional taper crimp die.

I like Hornady. They make good stuff, but this is outrageous. I emailed the company with my complaint.

I thought I would warn others before they make the same mistake.
 
That's good to know.
Most of my pistol loadings I use a Lee taper crimp die ( it also works great for roll crimping)
Good luck
 
GA:

I'm not so sure there is much or any difference between a taper crimp die and a roll crimp die. If you're crimping the living shippp out of it and it looks like a roll crimp, then back off the crimp die body until you're just straightening out the case wall and it looks like a light taper crimp.

Next time you have a "taper crimp die," turn it down and crimp a case hard. Looks just like a roll crimp, right?

Koski
 
Last edited:
GunAdmirer said:
I bought a set of Hornady .45 ACP and .40 S&W pistol die sets recently. After a couple of hours of frustration and some ruined brass cases, I realized the sets come with the ROLL crimp. You have to buy a separate taper crimp die for autoloading cartridges. A call to Hornady confirmed my revelation.
Click to expand...

There was a time when all dies, at for least handgun cartridges, came with roll crimps. taper crimp dies were a rarity and if you wanted to taper crimp, you had to buy a taper crimp die on special order.

You can crimp 45 auto and 40 S&W with a roll crimp die, it just takes careful set up to remove the mouth belling and not roll crimp into the bullet. Uniform case length is helpful with this.

Now a days, many manufacturers are offering auto pistol dies with a taper crimp. I prefer to crimp in a separate step anyway so i do not care what crimp is machined in the seater die. Taper crimp or roll crimp is done in a separate step. It is a habit I developed when I bought my special order taper crimp dies.
 
I crimped just until the rounds would drop freely into the Glock barrel. That's all. Took a lot of effort just to crimp enough to get them to fall in. Any more crimp and it would bulge and ruin the brass. Bad deal.

The good news is I was able to fire all the rounds today without incident. Most of the brass can be salvaged.
 
I'm not so sure there is much or any difference between a taper crimp die and a roll crimp die.
Click to expand...
There is quite a bit of difference between a proper roll crimp die and a proper taper crimp die, as well as the crimp they produce.

Heavy Taper Crimp

Medium Roll Crimp

Hornady is doing a dis-service by not providing the proper crimp. It is only a matter of machining a taper crimp into the seater sleeve instead of a roll crimp ledge.

Buy a Lee or a Redding taper crimp die and crimp in a second step.
 
That's funny, because if I turn down my Lee taper crimp die (.40), I can dig the case mouth clear into the bullet, just like a roll crimp.
 
GA:

Something doesn't add up. You can't be both "barely crimping enough to chamber" and "just about to bulge the brass/using a lot of force" at the same time. I suspect you're radically over-crimping.

What bullet(s) are you using? COL?

Do you have any pictures of your loaded rounds?

Koski
 
I ran into this several years ago when I purchased a Glock 21, I like the Hornady dies and the sleeve for the seater die but I also had to buy a Taper Crimp die. I like the additional step of seating the bullet and then the next stage taper crimps the bullet. I just recently purchased on ebay a 9mm set of Hornady dies and knew to go ahead and get the taper crimp.
My Brother and I purchased the Hornady LNL AP Progressive press at Christmas, I wish I had known how much faster you can load with a progressive press years ago. I started out with the RCBS regular press about 30 years ago and moved to the Rock Chucker about 12 years ago. With the Progressive Press you don't have the trays with ammo batched until you are finished. Anyway, I am getting off topic, sorry.
I actually think you can do a better job reloading by having a separate die for taper crimping after you seat the bullet.
Just my 2 cents worth,
Marcus:)
 
Even when I was seating & crimping in one step, I never had any issues w/ the Hornady dies. Oddly, the literature in the box is no help, this thread made me look. With .45 you don't need much, just knock the flare off and you're GTG.
I assumed that the .45 ACP would automatically be a taper crimp since it head-spaces on the case mouth. The only reason I could see a roll crimp would be for .45 Auto Rim. I would think even it would work fine with a taper crimp, within normal parameters.
Avoid the whole issue and get a Lee Factory Crimp die.
 
Interestingly, Redding makes a taper crimp die for the .45 acp and a different die, a profile (IOW roll) crimp die for the .45 autorim. I have both, but find that to effectively utilize a roll crimp, the bullets need a cannelure, and the vast majority of .45 bullets don't. I don't see much benefit in grooving the bullets just to roll crimp them in the .45 autorim unless they are really hot. So I just taper crimp the autorim like the acp. I back off the profile crimp die and get a good taper on the autorim. I also have a Lee FCD but I don't like the way it swages the .452 lead bullets.

Of course YMMV.
 
That's funny, because if I turn down my Lee taper crimp die (.40), I can dig the case mouth clear into the bullet, just like a roll crimp.
Click to expand...
If it is a real taper crimp die it has a long taper cut into the die. It simply cannot roll crimp. While it can jam the case edge into the bullet, that is not a roll crimp. I would love to see a pic of a .40 round with a roll crimp produced with a properly made taper crimp die. Can't happen. :)

Interestingly, Redding makes a taper crimp die for the .45 acp and a different die, a profile (IOW roll) crimp die for the .45 autorim
Click to expand...
Because some people like to roll crimp the .45 Auto Rim, and you need a roll crimp die to roll crimp and not a taper crimp die, so Redding makes both. They also make taper crimp dies for .38/.357, .44, etc.
 
Are you trying to tell me that me using a lee taper crimp die
to push the cartridge edge into the cannelure will not let my cartridge fire
properly---Iv'e been doing this for many many years--bullets seem very accurate to me????????????
 
Nowhere did I say your cartridge would not fire properly if you use a taper crimp instead of a roll crimp.

I simply stated that the two are different. I have used a heavy taper crimp on .38 bullets instead of using a roll crimp. It works just fine, but it isn't a roll crimp.

The Lee die that supposedly taper crimps if adjusted down a little, and roll crimps if you adjust it down farther is neither a true taper crimp die nor a true roll crimp die. It has a crimp ledge that is very sharp compared to a taper crimp die, but much less severe that the traditional roll crimp ledge.

If your brass is all trimmed the same, and you adjust the die just right, it can remove the bell with no crimp or a slight crimp, but that is not a true taper crimp and case length and die adjustment is very critical, where with a normal taper crimp die case length is not very critical due to the long taper cut into the die. It is a roll crimp die, and it can not taper crimp like a true taper crimp die does.

The Redding Profile Crimp Die is as close as it gets to a taper crimp/roll crimp die. It truly does have a slight taper leading into a roll crimp ledge. It still is a compromise, even though it is much closer to a die that can taper crimp or roll crimp. Even so, Redding properly advertizes it as a roll crimp die.

Am I being picky? Perhaps, but it is what it is, and I do not believe in sloppy reloading. No one die can taper crimp or roll crimp. It may do a halfway job of one and a decent job of another, but it can not do a great job of both.
 
I haven't seen every crimping die from every maker but I think it's been a LOOONG time since any maker produced a roll crimper ring in an autoloader cartridge seater. And we can make perfect crimps even with an old die that does roll crimp, actually it's not much harder to do than with a real taper crimp die. Basically, the only difference is how sharp the crimp angle is.

Either way, once you learn how to do it you can set the crimp in a minute or less; all that really needs to be done is to remove the mouth flare enough to match the contour of the rest of the case.
 
With the .45 ACP round you don't really need hardly any crimp at all if your case neck tension is sufficient. In semi auto cartridges the crimp is mainly just to remove the flare and bring the mouth back to the same dia. as the case.
 
Not overcrimping. Happened just as I described. I've been loading for over 5 years using RCBS dies. No problems. This is my first try with Hornady. It comes with a roll crimp. Confirmed by Hornady customer service rep who was sympathetic and couldn't explain why they do it.

I was using new Federal brass and Berry's 200 gr flat point bullets. They measured properly. I checked every possibility for error.

Interestingly enough, the roll crimped rounds I shot today were very accurate or I was having an exceptional shooting day.
 
What makes anyone think that they need to crimp .45 ACP?
Take a look at any factory ammo you purchase and you will see that it isn't crimped at all.
I was told by someone older and wiser than me that crimping will result in less neck tension than leaving the case without a crimp.
I didn't believe him until I tested out his theory and he was 100% correct.

There is an easy way to test this.

Produce dummy rounds of a known length with and without a crimp.

Take a 4' piece of 1/2" pipe (inside diameter) and hold it vertically on a concrete floor.
Drop a dummy round down the pipe base down and measure the setback.
You will find that the round without any crimp will have the least amount of setback.
 
A proper very light taper crimp on .45 ACP will not ruin neck tension. Over crimping or post sizing can sometimes.

For some ridiculous reason Hornady seems to make all the seater sleeves with the crimp built in roll crimps. I like their seaters, but for the couple I use for auto calibers I use them to seat only and then crimp with a normal taper crimp only die afterwards.
 
I wasn't really "crimping" - just taking the "bell" out or straightening the case until it would drop in the G21 barrel.

So, do I reward Hornady and buy their taper crimp dies to match the sets or buy one of the other brands? Wish I had stuck with RCBS.
 
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