House fire

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tabberski

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Hello everyone,
I just received a couple of free shotguns from a house fire. All stocks were melted off (synthetic).:fire:

Browning A5 20 gauge
Rem 870 sup mag 12
Rem 1187 20 gauge

I would like to get these back up and running. But of course realize they would never look very attractive, and for the most part these guns are cheap. So no large investment, I can walk away from these. But being free, what are your thoughts.:fire:

1. Obiously all springs would need to be replaced:fire:
2. What are the thoughts on barrels?:fire:
3. What are thoughts on bolt assembly?:fire:
4. Receiver doesn't seem to be warped, bolt slides smoothly, barrel is a slip fit.:fire:
5. The receiver doesn't contain the combustion for the most part, so any thoughts.:fire:

So far the Rem 870 sup mag seems the most doable.

Okay guys let the fun begin, lets hear it.:fire:
 
Smells like the proverbial rat hole.

Small parts heat up quickly, and damage is not obvious.

Be aware of....
 
My immediate thoughts are to replace the barrel and all springs, firing pin. Watch the bolt for peening marks (softening).
 
Find out what the melting points of the synthetic stocks are. This tells you how hot the fire was. Then figure out if this is enough to disrupt the temper needed to keep the bolts/actions/barrels safe. Back this up by getting the metal hardness measured with an instrument.
 
If the springs are soft, everything in the gun is annealed, and heat treating ruined.
That includes the bolt, receiver, trigger, hammer, and other fire control parts.

It would be a waste of time & money to repair them as they would not be safe to fire, or last very long if you did.

rc
 
Find out what the melting points of the synthetic stocks are. This tells you how hot the fire was. Then figure out if this is enough to disrupt the temper needed to keep the bolts/actions/barrels safe.
Click to expand...

I have no idea as to how to answer the OP's question, but it seems to me that the suggestion I've quoted--finding out the melting point of the plastic stocks--only would tell you the minimum heat involved. It could have gotten hotter than what was required to hit the melting point.

An old thread on the topic is here: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-81833.html
 
I hear what you're saying.

If the plastic is just sagged from the heat, that's the melting point reached for a short period of time. If the stocks puddled to the bottom of the safe, the melting temp was sustained over time. If the plastic vaporized, that would be another known temperature, but much higher.

All I am saying is that each materiel known to man has a melting, boiling and vaporising point. These temperature points have been measured in labs, and the data is used by fire depts as markers when investigating arson.

edit: thanks for posting that old thread, very practical advice there: i.e. the guns are now dangerous junk.
 
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I have not seen the guns from the house fire resulting from my bizzare accident described in General, but am told the long guns racked in a closet are heavily smoked with at least finish damage to wood and metal. Pistols in an uninsulated case are said to be completely unmarred.

I have not seen anything to contradict the recommendations from that old thread on guns actually fire damaged. If the springs are softened and collapsed, you have to wonder about the temper of the big pieces.
 
A quick comment, the larger action springs are soft but do function. I have made arrangements with a machinist to have the barrels, bolts and receivers checked against not house heat treated units. I will let you guys know the results next week. Should be good info. The synthetic stock were either sagged badly or missing all together. No wood furniture was left. Also the bolts lock into the barrel not the receiver, so maybe new bolt, barrel, springs, trigger assy, mag tube spring assy, safety, stock set, front sight, and barrel and the gun will be up and running again... hah now that is depressing.
 
I doubt that the damage was such that the guns would blow up on the first shot, but soft steel will peen and wear heavily over a short space of time. IMHO, it would be pointless to spend time and money on those guns only to find out that a few boxes of shells will bring on excess headspace and result in either scrapping the gun or having it let go. (Where the locking is done is irrelevant; if the receiver got too hot and is soft, the same would be true of the barrel, bolt, and locking block.)

This, I believe, is a case where what you got for nothing is worth just what you paid.

Jim
 
Did you at least get a good water quench out of the fire hose ? I did 1 shotgun and 1 pistol from a car fire. It was so hot that the alum parts totally disappeared. The quench from the fire hose gave me some hardness back BUT........ Only shoot the shotgun with reduced loads, and not that often. And have not shot the pistol yet. Have a new slide and barrel for it but just have not got around to shooting it. Both are more curios than anything else and an exercise in gun repair.
 
Would it be possible to re-temper the receivers? It seems we have some experts in the NFW forums who could tell you all about achieving and testing for the necessary hardness.
 
I guess it would depend on the material used in making the small components. If the barrels are not warped, they should be fine in my opinion. Shotgun barrels are thin the way it is for the most part. Materials that used to be used were more of a mild steel. So if they are not warped, shooting low base loads should be more than ok. I would stay away from heavy loads as today shotgun barrels are often made out of a higher carbon steel that is many times heat treated from the steel mill prior to machining. ( I don't mean to 50 Rc C scale, but mildly heat treated, B scale) As for the small parts, throw them out. Each of these components will be made out of either spring steel, or high carbon steel heat treated to a higher tolerance to reduce wear. On some of your high end guns, I have seen components even made from tool steel such as S7. All of these material quickly loose their integrity when heat is applied. (Annealing) Example: S7 tool steel comes off the rack at between 55-59 Rockwell C scale hardness. 30 minutes at above 300 degrees will degrade the hardness to about 48-51 Rc C.
I have a friend who recovered a .22 lr revolver from a fire. There was no real visible damage other than a discoloration on the wood grip on one side. He loaded it, pulled the hammer back, and it did not lock. He still has a nice battle wound on his foot.
 
All three guns the OP mentioned have heat-treated/hardened barrel extensions where the bolt locks into the barrel.

If the springs got cooked, the barrels got cooked too!

They are no longer safe to shoot with any loads.

rc
 
Hot enough for long enough to completely burn wood is enough to take the heat treating out. Like RC says, they're not safe to shoot with any ammo.
"...possible to re-temper the receivers?..." Nope. Heat warps the steel.
 
Receivers were hardness checked. Rem 870 receiver that was in good shape had a hardness of 42 rc, house heat treated receiver came in about 20 rc. Barrels were even softer. So they are all shot. Also heat treating would more than likely warp the receiver. So they are all junk. Oh well no investment but a little time.
 
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