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How do i make this rifle legal?

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ganymede

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Aug 28, 2007
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Downtown SL, Ut.
I went into my LGS to buy an AK-47 today. they only had two models and they were in they were about 750 and 900 dollars each. my price range is about 500-600 dollars so I decided on a saiga 7.62X39 for 400 bucks. but i hit a snag. i told them my plan was to replace the stock and grip with a folding stock and pistol grip. I also told them I planed on buying aftermarket magazines that would hold 25-30 rounds. They told me there was some federal import law concerning the number of foreign or domesticly made parts that have to be in the rifle. It has to have less then 10 foriegn made parts to be legal. They said replacing the stock magazine with a 25 round one would be a felony. my question is how do i get arround that legaly? there is no way im messing with the ATF on this.
 
not sure on all the parts needed but there is a 922r compliance chart available on the net. I think saiga-12.com has it listed. You need a certain number of U.S. made parts to replace the foreign parts. the stock counts as 1. new magazine counts as 3. new forearm counts as 1. That may be enough but I am not sure. again the site i listed is a wealth of info.
 
A Saiga starts with 14 foreign parts. If you use a US stock, this drops it to 13. If you use a US mags, that drops it to 10 and legal. The rule is more than 10. 10 is legal.
 
okay i think im understanding this now. if i want a 25 round mag, all i need to do is a buy a US made mag and a US made stock and or pistol grip right? man it seemed so complicated before but now i think i get it.
 
No you don't. You need to change the stock. That is it. A Tapco Saiga stock with its integral US pistol grip will fix it. Then you can use US-made mags.

Start with 14
Replace stock with US made version: -1
Add US-made pistol grip (part of stock): +0
Use US-made mags: -3

Total: 10. Legal.
 
ganymede said:
okay i think im understanding this now. if i want a 25 round mag, all i need to do is a buy a US made mag and a US made stock and or pistol grip right? man it seemed so complicated before but now i think i get it.
Half right.

The Saiga does not come with a pistol grip.

Adding one takes your countable parts up to 15.

Just screwing a US made pistol grip on to the factory stock will still require you to change another countable part to a US made one if you're using US made magazines.
 
I have read over there... but there about 300 threads on the subject of conversions. it's going to take me more then a few hours to read and understand everything. you guys are helping with the understand part. i do appreciate the help you guys are giving. and that saiga forum seems like a good resource too.
 
Is all this number of parts nonsense not an import/sales rule? Or is the silliness an ownership thing? If you own a pre-Clinton import ban Norinco or Polytech M305/m14S, neither has American made parts. Just curious.
 
Do yourself a favor and drop in a $30 Tapco trigger group. I have 2 Saigas, and the difference is VERY noticeable.
 
I find it hilarious we have to count parts.... yay gun laws.

Sorry, off-topic, just found it hilarious that this thread even needs to exist.
 
I personaly would not wish to rely on the magazine to be 3 of my parts. Doing so is more cost effective.
However it means your firearm becomes a major felony depending on the magazine inserted into it.
It also means that without a magazine just the firearm confiscated along with any other foriegn magazine that will fit is a major felony.

The entire rifle could comply, but if siezed by any LEO along with various magazines it could be charged as a violation simply by combining it with a foriegn magazine.


These are the parts

1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings *
(2) Barrels *
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts *
(7) Bolt carriers *
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons *
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers *
(12) Hammers *
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors *
(15) Buttstocks *
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards *
(18) Magazine bodies *
(19) Followers *
(20) Floorplates *

You cannot have more than 10 foriegn ones if you in any way modify your rifle from stock. That includes putting in a magazine that holds over 10 rounds.
So 100% foriegn parts is legal. Remove one and you need to remove several more until you get down to 10 parts or you have commited a felony violation of 922(R).

Many firearm owners are commiting that exact felony without knowing it. They purchase a stock rifle and one of any standard magazines sold throughout the United States. With no other modification to the gun and simply inserting a magazine that holds over 10 rounds into the firearm they have commited a federal felony.
Purchasing a legal firearm and a legal magazine for that firearm and combining them is a felony they are unaware of.
They could then be charged with that felony, given no jail time, a slap on the wrist, maybe probation, and could never legaly own a firearm again in thier lifetime.
 
it's going to take me more then a few hours to read and understand everything.

You know how many hours there are in a ten year prison sentence?

That's how I think about it anyway, even if the law is mind-numbingly stupid.
 
You know how many hours there are in a ten year prison sentence?
87,600 approximately, but it feel longer if you get Bubba as a roomMATE :D
 
that was funny kanook. anyway, i think ive got this figured out. it seemed so complicated at first i wasn't sure it was worth it. It looks like all i need to do is buy a us made magazine and a us made stock and i'm good to go. of course, i will be reading more on this before i do any actual "assembling."
 
that was funny kanook. anyway, i think ive got this figured out. it seemed so complicated at first i wasn't sure it was worth it. It looks like all i need to do is buy a us made magazine and a us made stock and i'm good to go. of course, i will be reading more on this before i do any actual "assembling."

Keep in mind that after those modifications even using the stock low capacity magazine is a felony because it reverts back to 3 more foriegn parts if you just barely complied.
You would have added a pistol grip which means the rifle no longer complies with the import restrictions on those rifles (which apply to just ownership through 922(R) without less than 10 foriegn parts.)
That means if you have more than 8 foriegn parts in the gun, which you would just swapping the stock, the original low capacity foriegn magazine is a major 10 year federal felony to use because it tosses the gun over 10 foriegn parts.
Not because the low capacity magazine is a prohibited import feature, but because the pistol grip is which means the entire rifle magazine included has to have less than 10 foriegn parts at all times.


So for example if you have your perfectly compliant and legal rifle with a perfectly legal large capacity USA made magazine at the range, legaly firing that combination and you also have the low capacity foriegn magazine that came with it to use as well you are commiting a 10 year felony crime.

There is also several aftermarket magazines, some of them being the highest quality magazines that are foriegn made.
By just barely making your rifle compliant you could never legaly use any of them with that rifle. Some of them are sold by US importers but they are still foriegn magazines.
That is why relying on the magazine to count as 3 of the parts is not the best way to comply.
 
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