new_steyr1
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What's the proper way to do it? Proper meaning safest and least damaging.
How do you clear stove-pipes?
- Thread starter new_steyr1
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BamaBob
Member
I usually just run my hand back over it. You might want to just pull the slide back a hair and tump the brass out
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new_steyr1
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- 47
Yes! I've seen a guy karate-chop stove pipe and it got me wondering if tap and rack is the most effective way.
safety, inspect, rack the slide all the way back, tip the gun to the ejector side to allow the stove-piped round to fall clear of the gun... some may suggest removing the mag first to optimize safety, but it is a pretty routine fix.. keep the gun pointed in a safe direction... pull and tip... that is about as simple as it can be made...
then stop limp wristing....
then stop limp wristing....
BamaBob
Member
It works for me but i coould see it bothering some. What have you been doing?
+1PT safewise it is the thing to do especially if other are around or not
+1PT safewise it is the thing to do especially if other are around or not
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REAPER4206969
Member
REAPER4206969
Member
Carbine Instruction Disc 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71g7BBR3OcU
Carbine Instruction Disc 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgvzxvkxxMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71g7BBR3OcU
Carbine Instruction Disc 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgvzxvkxxMY
GBExpat
Member
Generally ... with the firearm always pointed in a safe direction ... I remove the mag (if possible), engage the safety (if possible), invert the firearm and pull back on the slide/bolt to release the case while carefully checking for any live round involved (and removing same before letting the slide/bolt slowly return to battery position).
REAPER4206969
Member
You need to watch the first video I posted.
Bennyb747
Member
I personally always clear stove pipes as fast as possible for practice. Not to say that removing the mag and tilting the gun up is wrong it's just don't plan on doing that when time matters.
Tap (bump the mag to make sure it's firmly inserted), Rack, (pull the slide while the firearm is still on target), Bang (fire a round).
Just keep it in your head Tap, Rack, Bang. a few practice drills and you should be able to easily do it in under a second.
Tap (bump the mag to make sure it's firmly inserted), Rack, (pull the slide while the firearm is still on target), Bang (fire a round).
Just keep it in your head Tap, Rack, Bang. a few practice drills and you should be able to easily do it in under a second.
Shear_stress
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Beat me to it!
GBExpat
Member
I did and saw nothing in it to suggest that I do anything different in my approach to clearing a stovepipe.
Nice well-done video(s), btw ... a pleasure to watch, especially on a rainy, house-bound day.
REAPER4206969
Member
You do not remove the magazine to clear a type 2 malfunction. Also do not ride the slide/bolt into battery.
GBExpat
Member
As I said ... generally, I do remove the mag from the firearm if I can. I do this so that I must only be concerned with the empty case and possibly one live round, and in some instances the latter may be damaged by the bolt.
That advice is only pertinent if a cartridge involved ... and it should be obvious that I clear any such cartridge prior to closing the bolt.
Keep in mind that the videos that you linked are about TACTICAL use of those AR15s and, so, not all of the information will apply in an ironclad way to all scenarios.
REAPER4206969
Member
I think you are confusing a failure to eject (“stove pipe”) with a failure to extract (“double feed”). To clear a “stovepipe” all you have to do is TAP the magazine and RACK the slide/charging handle and you are back in the fight.
GBExpat
Member
Nope, I understand what is meant by "stovepipe" ... been doing this stuff for a long time ... and the OP mentioned nothing about tactical/emergency/rush methods, just:
And I described to him how I safely handle such an occurance.
Are you not aware that with some firearms that the bolt can sometimes actually strip and try to chamber a fresh cartridge at an angle underneath the not-completely-ejected case? This can result in a dented case on the fresh cartridge and/or the bullet being bent askew in the case mouth?
Yikes, lots of stuff here that might get you killed in a gunfight, should a stovepipe happen to you. Some of the stuff explained here is fine for an administrative clearing of a Type 2 at the range, but it’s dangerous to train your muscle memory to do one thing on the range, and something completely different in a gunfight.
“Tap, Rack, Bang” is so 10 years ago. Look for the story of the cop who executed a perfect tap, rack, bang…and killed a bystander who stepped into the line of fire as he was clearing the malfunction. Don’t train yourself to pull the trigger after clearing. Tap, Rack, Re-Assess, or Assess, whatever, but make the conscious decision to shoot only if your adversary is still in the fight and your evaluation of Rule #4 hasn’t changed. If you hardwire the trigger pull into your muscle memory you can go from self-defense shooting to excessive use of force, or involuntary manslaughter pretty quick.
There is a more specific, proven procedure for clearing certain malfunctions:
Move/Look/Diagnose/Fix/Re-assess
But first you need to determine what type of malfunction you have. For the sake of context: there are two types of reloads, and three types of malfunctions: Emergency Reload, Tactical Reload, Type 1 (FTF), Type 2 (Stovepipe, FTE), and Type 3 (Feedway stoppage, double-feed) – why do you care? Because you don’t know what you have until you diagnose. An Emergency Reload, Type 2, and Type 3 all have the same symptom: Dead Trigger. You pressed the trigger, nothing happened. So what do you do?
MOVE, to cover preferably, but move.
While keeping the weapon pointed in at your adversary, tip it back to LOOK in the chamber.
DIAGNOSE - what did you see?
Nothing: Slide-lock, you ran the gun dry. FIX: Emergency Reload - Dump, Insert, Rack.
Brass High: Type 2, Stovepipe. FIX: Tap, Rack/Flip.
Brass Low: Type 3, Double-feed – Primary FIX: Go for your BUG. Secondary FIX: It takes about 6 seconds to clear a Type 3. Look, Lock, Strip, Rack, Rack, Rack, Insert, Rack.
RE-ASSESS. Is your adversary still in the fight? Has the dynamic changed? Do you still have a clear shot? Did anything step behind/in front of them? Is it possible to safely retreat now?
Train to clear malfunctions on the range the same way you would if your life depended on it. Don’t do it differently at the range. There’s nothing unsafe, or damaging about any of these procedures. Build the muscle memory to do it ONE way.
Here’s a video of James Yeager during a Glock Torture test. At about 2:47 he gets a stovepipe. Notice how he instinctually Moves/Looks/Diagnose’s/Fixes/(And I’m sure he re-assessed). Textbook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZxQfIBXDc
“Tap, Rack, Bang” is so 10 years ago. Look for the story of the cop who executed a perfect tap, rack, bang…and killed a bystander who stepped into the line of fire as he was clearing the malfunction. Don’t train yourself to pull the trigger after clearing. Tap, Rack, Re-Assess, or Assess, whatever, but make the conscious decision to shoot only if your adversary is still in the fight and your evaluation of Rule #4 hasn’t changed. If you hardwire the trigger pull into your muscle memory you can go from self-defense shooting to excessive use of force, or involuntary manslaughter pretty quick.
There is a more specific, proven procedure for clearing certain malfunctions:
Move/Look/Diagnose/Fix/Re-assess
But first you need to determine what type of malfunction you have. For the sake of context: there are two types of reloads, and three types of malfunctions: Emergency Reload, Tactical Reload, Type 1 (FTF), Type 2 (Stovepipe, FTE), and Type 3 (Feedway stoppage, double-feed) – why do you care? Because you don’t know what you have until you diagnose. An Emergency Reload, Type 2, and Type 3 all have the same symptom: Dead Trigger. You pressed the trigger, nothing happened. So what do you do?
MOVE, to cover preferably, but move.
While keeping the weapon pointed in at your adversary, tip it back to LOOK in the chamber.
DIAGNOSE - what did you see?
Nothing: Slide-lock, you ran the gun dry. FIX: Emergency Reload - Dump, Insert, Rack.
Brass High: Type 2, Stovepipe. FIX: Tap, Rack/Flip.
Brass Low: Type 3, Double-feed – Primary FIX: Go for your BUG. Secondary FIX: It takes about 6 seconds to clear a Type 3. Look, Lock, Strip, Rack, Rack, Rack, Insert, Rack.
RE-ASSESS. Is your adversary still in the fight? Has the dynamic changed? Do you still have a clear shot? Did anything step behind/in front of them? Is it possible to safely retreat now?
Train to clear malfunctions on the range the same way you would if your life depended on it. Don’t do it differently at the range. There’s nothing unsafe, or damaging about any of these procedures. Build the muscle memory to do it ONE way.
Here’s a video of James Yeager during a Glock Torture test. At about 2:47 he gets a stovepipe. Notice how he instinctually Moves/Looks/Diagnose’s/Fixes/(And I’m sure he re-assessed). Textbook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZxQfIBXDc
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anheiserglock
Member
Stove Pipe relief
Go on youtube and search Cliff Smith (Thunder Ranch). He shows exactly how and what to do.
Go on youtube and search Cliff Smith (Thunder Ranch). He shows exactly how and what to do.
Mad Magyar
Member
+1 The guy knows his stuff....
BlindJustice
Member
I've hardly had any stovepieps S&W 1911 ALWAYS ejects the
cases - so much for the silly complaints about the exterjnal
extractor at least for MY 1911. With my CZ 75B after 1500+ rounds
of no problems I was shooting a box of Blazer aluminum case 115 gr.
FMJ and out of 50 rounds had at least 6 stovepipes I wouldn't have
been using this ammo except at the time - it's all I could find for
a short notice trip to the range with my buddy - I won't use it again
ANyway, my procedure was raise the muzzle look at the gun - see
the case hanging, & after the first time of just trying to rack the slide and drop the case out I found hitting the mag release, and then
racking the slide back released the case then I slammed the mag back in ,
and racked the slide again and it was ready to go... crappy ammo.
The advantage I guess with the stock CZ 75B is the mag doesn't drop
all the way out just drops out about a 1/2 inch so it's a feature. just
bought it for a range gun - but it is a HD option, I figure a 15 shot mag
oughta do the job for HD. or I'm living in the wrong neighborhood
which is not the case.
Randall
cases - so much for the silly complaints about the exterjnal
extractor at least for MY 1911. With my CZ 75B after 1500+ rounds
of no problems I was shooting a box of Blazer aluminum case 115 gr.
FMJ and out of 50 rounds had at least 6 stovepipes I wouldn't have
been using this ammo except at the time - it's all I could find for
a short notice trip to the range with my buddy - I won't use it again
ANyway, my procedure was raise the muzzle look at the gun - see
the case hanging, & after the first time of just trying to rack the slide and drop the case out I found hitting the mag release, and then
racking the slide back released the case then I slammed the mag back in ,
and racked the slide again and it was ready to go... crappy ammo.
The advantage I guess with the stock CZ 75B is the mag doesn't drop
all the way out just drops out about a 1/2 inch so it's a feature. just
bought it for a range gun - but it is a HD option, I figure a 15 shot mag
oughta do the job for HD. or I'm living in the wrong neighborhood
which is not the case.
Randall
Yep. Tap & Rack. If that fails (usually a double feed), yank the mag, cycle, insert fresh mag, and cycle again.
Brushing a stovepipe away is a bad habit IMHO. It's better to build a good habit of tap & rack. In a SD situation, you may not have time to look and see if the malf is actually a stovepipe or not. Tap & rack will clear anything but a nasty double feed, and with practice can be very very quick to execute.
Again, JMHO.
Jason
REAPER4206969
Member
You are correct Sir. Are you shooting a rim fire? I have only encountered this malfunction in .22LR autoloaders. It is a type 2 with an odd type 1 where the cartridge fails to feed from the magazine and gets severely bent or dented from the slide/bolt and subsequently getting stuck in the feed lips.
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