How far are you willing to go to defend 2A

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Second Amendment all the way

and the Second Amendment is what my votes are fueled by.
I am willing to defend the 2A with all means possible, as long as they are legal. It is not wise to defend gun rights using threats or excessive heat, because that will only make the gun control nuts write about what a**holes gun owners are. Gun owners are supposed to show others that they are law abiding, responsible God fearing citizens who protect the good.

There is only one sensible gun law, the 2A, and what Thomas Jefferson states about a republican nation, Thomas Jefferson set the standards for a true American nation, while Washington helped to found it, Jefferson filled it up with fuel and placed it on the highway to the future.
 
The pro-gun crowd is likely to be the minority, if that is not true now it will be a fact in the future. The role of government is not simply to enforce the will of the majority but to also protect the rights of the minority. The 2nd Amendment ensures the protection of the people from a tyrannous government. In order for freedom to exist, the people need to have two things. 1. The will to protect it and 2. The means to protect it. Do not forget that the genocides we see today and in our history is the result of people lacking in either or both of the above clauses.

It is my belief that if the government decided to outright repeal the second amendment and begin collecting firearms for destruction, this country could no longer be called the United States. If we lose the means to protect ourselves from such a government, be prepared to lose all your other freedoms you so love in the future. I can understand that you value you and your family's lives but there are causes worth fighting for.

As long as we gun owners are willing to fight to protect this right to the very end, gun collections will occur. The question really is: not whether or not I'm willing to fight and die for the right of gun ownership, but whether the anti's are willing to die for their cause.

I have a theory that the more someone claims on the interenet that they are ready to kill or die for the 2nd amendment, the less likely they are to have actually done anything for it in the real world.
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I would disagree with your hypothesis.
 
I would agree with you

BUT...
As long as we gun owners are willing to fight to protect this right to the very end, gun collections will occur. The question really is: not whether or not I'm willing to fight and die for the right of gun ownership, but whether the anti's are willing to die for their cause.
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The anti's will not be the ones fighting. It will be the police and the national gaurd, and if it gets that far, the armed forces. Those will be the folks that "we" would be fighting, not the socialist, A-Holes that make and support anti laws.
 
In a land with total gun control, the citizens are

held captive by a form of terrorism known as:

Football Hooliganism. I think we all know what land I am thinking.

Over here in the liberal swamp that is NYC, we are already starting to see this behavior at Yankee and Mets games. Public entertainment centers are the places for wild brawls and riot-like atmospheres. That is the reason why I am not a sports fan or a public entertainment fan.
 
Real quick on gun laws. I'm Ok with the following;

1) Criminal Background checks on all gun purchasers.

2) No guns for convicted felons.

So you guys don't agree?

If China invades I would defend my home and my country with everything I got. This isn't about an invasion or some sort of dictatorship taking over. I'm talking about the possibility that public opinion will some day go against gun owners, and regular US politics led to the banning of gun ownership.

I like playing golf and I like shooting guns. If our elected officials said it was illegal to play golf, I would pitch a fit, protest, and go through every non-violent means to have the law repealed, but I would not kill my fellow man over my golf clubs. Same goes with my guns.

If the 2nd amendment was repealed tomorrow, those in the military took an oath to support and defended the constitution of the US. That includes defending legal changes to the constitution by the US government. At that point nothing in the constitution says we have the right to bear arms. Guns would a controlled/illegal thing, just like drugs. Are members of THR willing to kill a cop to protect an illegal item in their possession?
 
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience [has] shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:429
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Incarceration and comimment to psychiatric care are the only reasons justifiable under the Constitution to deprive someone of their RKBA.

Any other taxation, regulation, registration, licensure, or restriction of individual RKBA is on its face unConstitutional and should be removed from the books.

If the Brady Bunch get their way with enacting further gun laws, I will fail to comply. Even if it kills me or ruins me financially from having to defend my Rights in court. Enough is enough....
 
If we lose our firearms it will be do to our children and our childrens, children. If you want to fight thats where to start. Spend some quality time with the kids and we will NEVER lose this right.

Jim
 
Lonestar, sorry to butt in, but I am Chinese

and we Chinese will never invade anyone. We have our 3 million man army for national defense only, not imperialistic purposes.

I may be a hardcore Chinese nationalist but I love the United States just as much.

Don't take offense Lonestar, we are still forum friends, just wanted to set some things staright.
 
As to your original question - How far would I go to defend the 2A? well, trading fire with the feds when they come around is suicidal if that is what you are asking. A simple "I've sold everything I had" is all that really needs to be said. I think that sums it up nicely.
 
Everyone always quotes

this line from the Declaration of Independence:
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience [has] shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security
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But, this was the one that REALLY mattered:

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Because if they were wrong, and lost the War for Independence, they would have lost all of thoes things. That is why they took so long to gather enough support for it.
 
I hope everyone realizes that this is a public forum that can be seen by anyone that comes across it. One had to be a little nuts to state publically on this site that they will take lives to defend RKBA. I would not doubt this forum is being monitered by many Government officals, and your words could come back to haunt you. Also statements about taking down the Government, and shooting JBT, plays right into the hands of the Antis, and worse it will also turn fence sitters off on the RKBA. Please watch what you say on all public forums.

I will say that I support some common sense gun laws, such as background checks, waiting periods and other regulations that hinder criminals from owning guns.
 
quote:
I will say that I support some common sense gun laws, such as background checks, waiting periods and other regulations that hinder criminals from owning guns.

-------------------------
I see how a background check stops a criminal from getting a gun, but how does a waiting period?
 
I will say that I support some common sense gun laws, such as background checks, waiting periods and other regulations that hinder criminals from owning guns.
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Weak argument.
You assume that criminals ARE really hindered;but you present no evidence that it is true.
You assume that guns in the hands of criminals somehow make things worse for the rest of us; but you present no evidence that it is true.
 
HPD
I see how a background check stops a criminal from getting a gun ...
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The check only stops him from getting a LEGAL gun.
By fostering a black market, the same laws make it EASIER to get an ILLEGAL gun.

but how does a waiting period?
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As far as I can tell, some people believe that most crimes are commited by ordinary people who give in to a once-in-a-lifetime impulse. Typical anti attitude; degenerate, elitist, anti-democratic, contemptuous of the rest of us.
 
I believe that it would only take 0.2 to 1% of the population to effect change in the USA by force. It takes so little becuase the vast majority simply wont care, or if they care wont act. Once that little bit start voiceing there opions and takeing action, many will start to follow them. Think what would happen if the SWAT teams start killing poeple who are innocent. Each time that happens it would prove that things need to change.
 
I hope everyone realizes that this is a public forum that can be seen by anyone that comes across it. One had to be a little nuts to state publically on this site that they will take lives to defend RKBA. I would not doubt this forum is being monitered by many Government officals, and your words could come back to haunt you. Also statements about taking down the Government, and shooting JBT, plays right into the hands of the Antis, and worse it will also turn fence sitters off on the RKBA. Please watch what you say on all public forums.
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EXACTLY!!! I posted on a previous thread that I rather not be a member of THR if the forum moved into a more radical, government hating slant. I rather not have a black mark on some federal file, simply because I'm on this site posting threads about the Glock 26. Some posters on this thread are sort of proving my point.

P.S. to Rachen...I only chose the Chinese because after the fall of the USSR, they are the only country able to pull an invasion of the US off.
 
Real quick on gun laws. I'm Ok with the following;

1) Criminal Background checks on all gun purchasers.

2) No guns for convicted felons.

So you guys don't agree?
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No, I do agree with this. These are all sensible laws.

If China invades I would defend my home and my country with everything I got. This isn't about an invasion or some sort of dictatorship taking over. I'm talking about the possibility that public opinion will some day go against gun owners, and regular US politics led to the banning of gun ownership.

I like playing golf and I like shooting guns. If our elected officials said it was illegal to play golf, I would pitch a fit, protest, and go through every non-violent means to have the law repealed, but I would not kill my fellow man over my golf clubs. Same goes with my guns.

If the 2nd amendment was repealed tomorrow, those in the military took an oath to support and defended the constitution of the US. That includes defending legal changes to the constitution by the US government. At that point nothing in the constitution says we have the right to bear arms. Guns would a controlled/illegal thing, just like drugs. Are members of THR willing to kill a cop to protect an illegal item in their possession?
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I outlined my answer to that in my previous post. You cannot compare golf to the right to keep and bear arms. Let's put this into perspective here. We're talking about fundamental liberties guaranteed by the constituion, specifically the bill of rights. Your right to play golf is not right, nor is it a right to drive, smoke, etc. We wouldn't have a United States today if there wasn't a bill of rights within the costitution. If you want to disagree with that, then you need to open up a history textbook.

I'm well aware that message boards such as these are monitored by the government. But this is merely nothing more than a hypothetical discussion of events that I believe will never occur.
 
The check only stops him from getting a LEGAL gun.
By fostering a black market, the same laws make it EASIER to get an ILLEGAL gun.
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So what is your solution, make all guns legal even for criminals. Sure that will make us all safer. I wonder where all the common sense in the world has gone?

You assume that criminals ARE really hindered;but you present no evidence that it is true.
You assume that guns in the hands of criminals somehow make things worse for the rest of us; but you present no evidence that it is true.
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Yet you have no proof otherwise that your solutions would work. Arm criminals that a good one. Sanity has just left the room.
 
So what is your response, making all guns legal even for criminals will make us safer. Wow, you are pretty far out in right field.
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Once your restitution is paid, you should be able to get your Rights restored. Right now, you can't. That office isn't being funded. Still exists, but they have no operating budget.

As for those genuinely dangerous, either incarcerate them for life, execute them, or allow their law abiding victims the means with which to more easily dispatch them by leaving their RKBA completely unrestricted.
 
EXACTLY!!! I posted on a previous thread that I rather not be a member of THR if the forum moved into a more radical, government hating slant. I rather not have a black mark on some federal file, simply because I'm on this site posting threads about the Glock 26. Some posters on this thread are sort of proving my point.
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This is not some government hating slant. I love this country and would defend it with my life. But if we begin to make amendments to the constitution specifically removing the bill of rights, I could no longer consider this a free and democratic country. There comes a time when there is no other recourse in action except armed resistance. That is why the original 13 colonies revolted from England.

I'm completely baffled that people are afraid to have such hypothetical discussions. The government can track me down pretty easily if they want to. Any one with the internet can do that. I use this screen name on all my forums. Google my screen name and you'll find everywhere I post as well.

I'll let it be known that I will be applying to become an FSO this comming spring. I highly doubt by posting on such a topic will leave a "black mark on some federal file".
 
Lonestar, you hit on something important. We either have the Second Amendment and our rights, or we don't. In order for those rights to be "taken" from us, the Second Amendment must be repealed. If anti-gunners had any self-respect, they'd propose that course of action. If they can get enough public support for that, then by all means, go for it. If, however, the Second Amendment is not repealed, then the Supreme Law of the Land GUARANTEES our rights, and restrictoins are unconstitutional. So, outlawing guns is ILLEGAL. Should we not fight against illegality in this country? Have we sunk so far as to believe that illegality by the government is ok?

(for those who are going to say that the 2A doesn't give us our rights, only clarifies that the government cannot infringe on them, I agree with you, but had to write it that way to be clear)
 
As for fearing our government due to sentiments expressed here, Thomas Jefferson had something interesting to say on the subject:

"Did we ever expect to see the day, when, breathing nothing but sentiments of love to our country and its freedom and happiness, our correspondence must be as secret as if we were hatching its destruction!" --Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799. ME 10:86

"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual." --Thomas Jefferson to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1819.
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