HS6 Data Differences in 357 Magnum

[JKP]

I load 7.0 gr HS-6 with 158 gr coated LSWC. They crono an average of1050 fps. Nice medium load, but the brass is sometimes stiff to extract and the primers are slightly flattened. This is in my 66 no dash. The same load never showed that in my old 19-3.

 

[shanep0017]

I actually have a lot of experience with this same issue, the main powder I use in 357 magnum is HS6 and I load mostly 158 grain SWCs. The Hodgdon data is a glorified 38+p load, the 7 grain max is rated at 15,000 psi if that's any indication to how weak that data is. I know a few people who use that load in 38 cases to replicate the old FBI load, even though its over current published data. A good portion of Hodgdons lead bullet data is for cowboy action shooting.
The Lyman data is for hardcast bullets and its good data, if you're using cast semi wadcutters I would follow the 358156 155 grain data. The 158 grain is a RNFP bullet and I was never able to hit the 10 or 10.2 grain max load, I always topped out around 9.7 which is the max for the "155" grain SWC. My woods load is 9.5 grains, general practice is 9 grains and is very controllable.
As for swaged bullets, they can be pushed a little harder than Hodgdon would have you believe. I had a box of Hornady swaged SWCs and I came across some older Hornady data for their bullets in 357. It's not currently published in their manual but I contacted Hornady and was told the data is perfectly safe they just didn't like the results they got from it. I got good results from the data myself and if you're interested I'll send you a copy. It has data for HS6 and Win 231. I won't post specifics but it's basically right in the middle of Hodgdon and Lyman data for HS6 with 158 grain bullets. I never had an issue with leading or anything using this data either.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I had a box of Hornady swaged SWCs and I came across some older Hornady data for their bullets in 357.

Is this the bullet their “Frontier” label replaced? That was a good bullet. Swaged antimonial lead wire IIRC.
If you haven’t tried the Frontier LSWC-HP swaged with the stippling and wax coating give them a try. I’ve pushed those close to coated velocities with no problems. They flatten on bone so not too terrific for hunting - unless it’s vermin less than 50lbs. Then they’re good.

 

[shanep0017]

Is this the bullet their “Frontier” label replaced? That was a good bullet. Swaged antimonial lead wire IIRC.
If you haven’t tried the Frontier LSWC-HP swaged with the stippling and wax coating give them a try. I’ve pushed those close to coated velocities with no problems. They flatten on bone so not too terrific for hunting - unless it’s vermin less than 50lbs. Then they’re good.

Yeah its the frontier bullets, only I was using the non hollowpoint version. I've pushed them pretty far too, using the Lyman data. I didn't have any leading but that was only one cylinders worth of ammo. I felt it was a little too much for the swaged bullets but I've had no issues with them at levels in between Hodgdon and Lyman data. My general purpose load with those bullets is 8 grains HS6, the Hornady max was a couple tenths more for 357 magnum.
I'm out of them now expect for about 100 I have loaded in 38 cases for plinking. I just decided it was easier to use cast for everything and would cost me less. I can get 300 of the Hornady swaged for $33 plus $10 shipping, I just got 500 cast for $51 shipped.
Surprisingly I've also never had an issue using 15-18 bhn cast bullets at 38 special target velocities. This tells me bullet to bore fit is the most important factor rather than bhn. I've used swaged at high velocity and cast at low velocity and as long as the bullets are sized at .358 I've been good to go.
I do think the swaged bullets are better for 38 special target loads but I would have no qualms about using them for serious use. I almost bought a 250 box of the full wadcutters at a local shop the other day, decided not to since I have a few other things on my list that are more important right now.

 

[shanep0017]

Is this the bullet their “Frontier” label replaced? That was a good bullet. Swaged antimonial lead wire IIRC.
If you haven’t tried the Frontier LSWC-HP swaged with the stippling and wax coating give them a try. I’ve pushed those close to coated velocities with no problems. They flatten on bone so not too terrific for hunting - unless it’s vermin less than 50lbs. Then they’re good.

I almost forgot, this is only for the Hornady 158 grain swaged bullets but a guy I know tested the hardness and found they were 12 bhn. That may be why we have been able to push them to moderate levels.
The full wadcutters and other bullets in the Frontier line are around 8 bhn but for some reason the SWCs are around 12. I think the 44 SWCs are around 12 also but I'd have to look into it again.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I almost forgot, this is only for the Hornady 158 grain swaged bullets but a guy I know tested the hardness and found they were 12 bhn. That may be why we have been able to push them to moderate levels.
The full wadcutters and other bullets in the Frontier line are around 8 bhn but for some reason the SWCs are around 12. I think the 44 SWCs are around 12 also but I'd have to look into it again.

I didn’t know the DEWC’s were harder. That’s kinda strange.

One of the reasons the softer bullets don’t lead is the concave base with square edge. It fills the grooves nicely and seals.

My magnum load is the listed maximum but I worked up to that really slowly and tested a lot of different combinations of primer and seating depth getting there.

 

[shanep0017]

I didn’t know the DEWC’s were harder. That’s kinda strange.

One of the reasons the softer bullets don’t lead is the concave base with square edge. It fills the grooves nicely and seals.

My magnum load is the listed maximum but I worked up to that really slowly and tested a lot of different combinations of primer and seating depth getting there.

The full wadcutters are softer, the semi wadcutters are harder

 

[shanep0017]

I didn’t know the DEWC’s were harder. That’s kinda strange.

One of the reasons the softer bullets don’t lead is the concave base with square edge. It fills the grooves nicely and seals.

My magnum load is the listed maximum but I worked up to that really slowly and tested a lot of different combinations of primer and seating depth getting there.

Max load per Lyman? See I didn't really have a chance to play with seating depth as my cast bullets all have a crimp groove. I got to the max fairly quickly although at first I was using the 158 RNFP data. Once I realized my bullet was closer to the 358156 and followed that data I noticed I just happened to top out at the 9.7 max for that bullet. I toned it down to 9.5 grains. The max for the 158 RNFP is 10.2 grains HS6, every time I hit 9.8 I felt it was wise to back off regardless of case or primer used.
9.5 grains seemed to be just as stout as 9.7 and I figured I'd gain very little in velocity using the extra two tenths so I just decided to stay at 9.5 grains for my woods load. 9 to 9.2 grains is very controllable yet still stout enough to be used for serious work so that's my magnum plinking load.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The full wadcutters are softer, the semi wadcutters are harder

That makes more sense. Thanks. Lysdexia si fulwa.

 

[hunt127588]

Using 8.5 gr of HS-6 with RP .357 brass and pushing a Missouri Bullet 158 gr LSWC Hi-Htek (18 BHN) gave me an avg of 1,1108 fps.

Using 9.4 gr of HS-6 with Win .357 brass and pushing the same MB bullet above gave me an avg of 1,241 fps.

Both above were from a 4" Taurus 66.

 

[shanep0017]

Using 8.5 gr of HS-6 with RP .357 brass and pushing a Missouri Bullet 158 gr LSWC Hi-Htek (18 BHN) gave me an avg of 1,1108 fps.

Using 9.4 gr of HS-6 with Win .357 brass and pushing the same MB bullet above gave me an avg of 1,241 fps.

Both above were from a 4" Taurus 66.

I was wondering if anyone had an estimate of what my loads would do from a 4 inch barrel. I too am using the same 158s from MB. I got a really good deal from Summit City Bullets and got 500, same grooveless bullet basically they match up perfectly. Probably using the same mould. Even at 9.2 I should be close to 1200 fps, I might drop down to that for everything since its a little easier to control.