hypothetical: AK-74, no more surplus ammo, what do you do?

[Sam1911]

Maybe you just need an 8mm to make up for the lack of energy.

 

[jason41987]

well sam, the underpowered nature of the 5.45 is one of the primary reasons i wanted something in a bigger, full powered caliber like 8mm.. i should just resign my AK to plinking.. and the zombie apocalypse where i would need to carry a ton of ammo at once.. but i do see the point.. why care if ammo dries up for it if im upgrading to something with a bigger punch anyway, right?.. or many even sell it and put the money towards that 8mm rifle (most likely an FN-49)

 

[jrdolall]

I paid $300 for my '74 two years ago. I bought ammo by the box for $5 from a couple of online sites, Tula mostly, and still have some of that ammo. I also have a few boxes of the Hornady.
I now have 6 crates of the surplus ammo that I have set aside unopened as well as dribs and drabs of the boxes. Total of about 15k rounds for a gun I really don't shoot THAT much but the crates were $.17 per round.

$300 for a gun and $2500 worth of ammo for the gun. Now I am looking for another rifle in the caliber.

 

[nathan]

If you think the 74 surplus ammo will go away, then stock up now. Life s too short to worry. Or sell it. The constant thing in life is, change. ANd that holds to supply and demand. ENjoy what you can right now and worry no more.

 

[WardenWolf]

There's Silver Bear 5.45x39 which is commercially imported. So even if surplus imports disappear, there's that. Demand would lead to local manufacturers making it if all imports were banned.

That Hornady round is whack. Near as I can tell they're just having Wolf or another Russian manufacturer use their bullet. I'm absolutely positive that every part except the bullet itself comes from a Russian factory. Don't think Hornady wouldn't stoop so low; I have Hornady 7.7x58 JAP cartridges with a PPU (PRVI Partizan) headstamp. They've been outsourcing their less-common rounds to cheaper manufacturers for many years.

 

[Sam1911]

That Hornady round is whack. Near as I can tell they're just having Wolf or another Russian manufacturer use their bullet. I'm absolutely positive that every part except the bullet itself comes from a Russian factory. Don't think Hornady wouldn't stoop so low

Not up on the terms kids use these days, but is "whack" good or bad?

"Stoop so low" seems to indicate bad, but I don't know why that would be. Have you tested it? Is it poor-performing? Less accurate than 7n6?

 

[Warp]

Whack is not a good thing. Think "screwy" or "jacked up" as a synonym, I think.

 

[WardenWolf]

"Whack" as in, crazy in a screwed up sort of way. It's a weird hybrid, an American bullet in a Russian steel casing. And even more so because it's not just some handloader's workaround to get cheap hunting bullets in the caliber. No, it's an actual factory round, and Hornady even put their name on it even though the overall construction (steel case, Berdan primer) is nowhere near their normal standards.

 

[Sam1911]

Whack is not a good thing. Think "screwy" or "jacked up" as a synonym, I think.

Ok. Thanks.

"Whack" as in, crazy in a screwed up sort of way. It's a weird hybrid, an American bullet in a Russian steel casing. And even more so because it's not just some handloader's workaround to get cheap hunting bullets in the caliber. No, it's an actual factory round, and Hornady even put their name on it even though the overall construction (steel case, Berdan primer) is nowhere near their normal standards.

Ok. It is unusual, but I guess I'm still asking if there's something deficient about it. Does it not shoot accurately? Is it not up to or exceeding the terminal performance, reliability, or other measure of results that you're expecting?

Or is it only deficient in it's "brass-cased-boxer-primed-ness?" I thought that was a pretty neat way for a manufacturer to produce a higher quality product using things that are available on the market already (plus their bullet, their powder, and their quality controls -- the things that actually matter to decent accuracy).

If you've got results that say it is not performing well, that's what I'm asking for.

If you just think it looks funny or isn't especially "brassy" ... well, what difference does that make? That hardly makes it "no where near their [Hornady's] normal standards." Only performance can say whether it meets their standards or not.

So...?

 

[Inebriated]

"Whack" as in, crazy in a screwed up sort of way. It's a weird hybrid, an American bullet in a Russian steel casing. And even more so because it's not just some handloader's workaround to get cheap hunting bullets in the caliber. No, it's an actual factory round, and Hornady even put their name on it even though the overall construction (steel case, Berdan primer) is nowhere near their normal standards.

A sucking chest wound really doesn't care what case and primer the bullet was sitting with. Like it or not, Hornady's steel-cased stuff works. I don't care who makes it, if it came in a Wolf box and still had the VMAX or SST bullet, I'd still buy it.

 

[jason41987]

i like hornadys bullets, especially the a-max, SST bullets and most likely will begin reloading with those bullets when i start making 8mm ammunition for my next couple purchases.. but in the 5.45x39mm im not so sure.. this cartridge doesnt have the energy of a 5.56mm (i believe about 1,050ft/lbs muzzle energy) and for all i know may just be used swaged or sized 5.56mm bullets, if theyre willing to reuse the brass from wolf or other manufacturers, or maybe even pull the bullets off surplus ammo and replace it with theirs, then theyd probably just resize .223 bullets too for the relatively small market, and need to compete with still low cost surplus

so.. i really would have my doubts about the hornady 5.45mm ammunition, an already underpowered round which made up for it with a tumbling effect no longer having that tumbling effect and possibly firing bullets originally designed to expand at 5.56/223 velocities.. i guess im not going to take domestically manufactured 5.45mm ammunition until care enough about it to actually start making their brass for it too

so as someone who currently reloads for everything i own BUT 5.45mm, i may want to think about getting into reloading for it by reforming .222 brass and sizing .223 bullets.. my only concern is this.. .222 is listed as having a max pressure of 50,000PSI, 5.45x39 is 55,000PSI, maybe capable of more.. so reformed .222 brass would probably have to be down-loaded.. then again .222 does look to be atleast as thick walled as .223 remington brass

also.. its not impossible to modify berdan primed cases to use boxer primers.. i did it with some 7.62x54R steel cases and it worked.. also prvi partizan is now making brass, boxer primed 5.45x39mm brass, seen buffaloarms selling it but at about $291 per 100... so definitely not worth it

 

[jojo200517]

Well if you are left suddenly with no imported commercial or surplus (and no known domestically produced ammo) and know it could happen and didn't bother to buy it cheap and stack it deep ahead of time then you shot yourself in the proverbial foot.

Your options will be drastically limited, but you could reload, yeah even the steel can be reloaded to it wouldn't be desirable. People will tell you it can't because it's steel or berdan primed, but google it people have did it with 7.62x39 steel before.

Then I suppose you have the option of changing calibers of your AK. That's going to be a pretty large undertaking normally. It's not an AR where you push a couple pins plop one upper off and another on. It will require good gunsmithing to fit the new caliber barrel and assorted stuff and probably cheaper to buy an AK in a different caliber.

If you are truly worried about 5.45 drying up and believe that 5.56 will be available in the future then the possible answer you were looking for is to trade the rifle now. CANIS design group (formerly texas ak design) and Definitive Arms both offer options for 5.56 AK's to use standard AR mags. I haven't handled one of the CANIS models but I love my Definitive Arms conversion. Standard AR mags and last round bolt hold open.

 

[jason41987]

do you know how many 30 round mags you can fill with a 1080 or so round can of surplus ammo?.. about 36.. i can go through that in about a week

 

[Inebriated]

Dude, it aint difficult. Stock up now, and if ammo is no longer being imported, save it all, and buy a new gun to use more plentiful ammo. You don't have to shoot 1080 rounds a week, and you'd be completely stupid to do that if ammo ceased to be imported.

Either buy another gun, stock up on what you can now, or don't complain if ammo is no longer imported and you can't help but shoot 1080rds a week.

 

[Warp]

Dude, it aint difficult. Stock up now, and if ammo is no longer being imported, save it all, and buy a new gun to use more plentiful ammo. You don't have to shoot 1080 rounds a week, and you'd be completely stupid to do that if ammo ceased to be imported.

Either buy another gun, stock up on what you can now, or don't complain if ammo is no longer imported and you can't help but shoot 1080rds a week.

If importation of ammunition stops...there won't be any such thing as "plentiful ammo"...regardless of caliber/cartridge.

 

[henschman]

Yep, if things are to the point where you can't get ammo for it, you won't be able to get it for any of the other common military cartridges either -- certainly not 5.56. While its cheap, just buy enough to get you through a couple years of panic and keep that much on hand, in addition to what you shoot up on a regular basis.

 

[Inebriated]

If importation of ammunition stops...there won't be any such thing as "plentiful ammo"...regardless of caliber/cartridge.

I agree.

 

[Mike1234567]

Maybe I should post my 5.45 surplus ammo for sale?

 

[Sam1911]

for all i know may just be used swaged or sized 5.56mm bullets, if theyre willing to reuse the brass from wolf or other manufacturers, or maybe even pull the bullets off surplus ammo and replace it with theirs, then theyd probably just resize .223 bullets too for the relatively small market, and need to compete with still low cost surplus

They are a bullet manufacturer, so they do use various processes to make the bullets they sell. Some of those processes are very likely to be swaging to final size. And swaging a bullet down from .224" to .220" isn't the sort of thing that's likely to do any damage, even if you did it yourself in your own press. Hornady lists their .224" V-max as a swaged lead core bullet anyway.

I see the velocity for the surplus 7n6 ammo listed as about 2,850 fps (870 mps) for a 53 gr. (3.42 g) bullet. Hornady is listing 2,810 fps for 60 gr. That's very similar.

Certainly many of the cartridges and loads that V-max bullet is designed to work with will be in the 2,800 fps range, so it is absolutely going to do what it is intended to do.

Whether that expansions is better than the tumble and fragment effect the 7n6 surplus is known for, I'm not sure. We'd actually need to test it.

i guess im not going to take domestically manufactured 5.45mm ammunition until care enough about it to actually start making their brass for it too

I don't know why they WOULD make brass. The guns this is chambered for are universally intended to be firing large volumes of steel-cased ammo. The companies that make those cases specialize in making steel ones, not brass. Why would an American domestic manufacturer tool up to make more expensive brass cases to fill the needs of shooters who own millions of guns that weren't built to use brass cases? Why wouldn't they buy the original style cases from the folks who specialize in making them? You certainly can't argue that brass-cased ammo is inherently better to shoot through a Kalashnikov.

Once there's a lot of demand for reloading it, then it will make a whole lot more sense because it will last through more loadings, but for right now it wouldn't make any sense to me if I were in their shoes.

 

[jrdolall]

I don't have any problem with shooting surplus ammo through a military surplus firearm. I do it with Ak-47s, Ak-74, Mosins, SKS, 9x18 pistols and have been perfectly happy with the results.

I am minute of pie plate which is all I am looking for with these guns. I just got in 1,000 rounds of 9x18 brass and already have a lot of the steel case. I don't plan to buy any more 5.45x39 until I go through a couple of crates of what I have on hand.

 

[Jackal]

Can we just hypothetically say this thread/topic is kinda just silly? A hypothetical question needs a point, or at least an argument. The original poster left no options for this situation. If his AK no longer had ammo available, why then in this same unreal situation would he still have access to .223? Or, under the same hypothetical guidelines, why can he still legally own a rifle at all?:banghead:

 

[BSA1]

What would I do?

Why I'd post a thread on THR asking for advice silly.

 

[Girodin]

They same thing folks do with their 7.62x25 guns now I guess. I remember when that stuff was very cheap and widely available and then it seemed like all of the sudden it was just gone.

 

[jason41987]

cant you just make 7.62x25mm brass from .223 brass? i think i remember seeing that somewhere?

 

[41magsnub]

I bought enough while it was cheap(er) to wear out the barrels on both my guns in this caliber, so not worried.

the hornady stuff isn't really domestic is it? I thought they were buying primed cases from Barnaul and sticking in their own powder/bullets. AFAIK there is no domestic source for the "brass".