I Have A Rent Legal Question

[M4A3]

Ok, I lived in an Apartment for a month. But never signed a lease. I never signed it because the landlord kept hassling me and entering my apartment when I wasn't home and messing with my property (sometimes my guns were messed with).

So knowing what type of landlord this person is, I knew I was going to leave.
My question is, since I never signed a lease or paid them for the 1 month rent can they legally do anything to me?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Gray Peterson]

What state is this in?

 

[M4A3]

CO

 

[arcticap]

I'm not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice, just friendly banter. You could be taken to small claims court or housing court for the rent. If you can prove your premises were illegally entered, you may be able to get some kind of rent reduction or offsetting award. If you still live there and are not paying rent the landlord could evict you. If you move and do not provide the proper notice that is required by law (I don't know what that is, you would have to find out) or by your agreement, you might be on the hook for another month's rent. If your landlord claims that you damaged the apartment or failed to clean it satisfactorily, you could be held liable as well. Many people who live in an apartment with housing code violations call their local housing inspector for an inspection to document any unsafe conditions so that if they get evicted, there is a record for the judge to review. Then the amount of money owed and how much time you have to relocate can be properly determined.

 

[M4A3]

arcticap,

Thanks for the reply. But that all would make sense IF ---- IF there was a legal document with my signature on it saying I abide by the lease agreement.

But I never signed a lease because I knew I was getting out of there.

 

[arcticap]

If there was an oral agreement, you owe the rent, unless there is a valid dispute or there is an eviction and you contest it, with an inspection or other valid reason. He can sue you in a lower court of some kind, small claims or housing. If you don't pay, the judge can help him collect the debt.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Pull a Pacific Hieghts!! You know that older Micheal Keaton movie...he moves into a place, and only pays cash and never signed a leased. Wound up taking the property from the owner/landlord because he was 'living there' and they had no right to evict him!

I dunno how much of that movie was based on actual legal stuff, but I remember there being a flurry of news stuff about that kinda thing.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Pull a Pacific Heights!! You know that older Micheal Keaton movie...he moves into a place, and only pays cash and never signed a leased. Wound up taking the property from the owner/landlord because he was 'living there' and they had no right to evict him!

I dunno how much of that movie was based on actual legal stuff, but I remember there being a flurry of news stuff about that kinda thing.

 

[phorvick]

Check here...

http://www.colorado.edu/OCSS/term.html

 

[M4A3]

phorvick,

I thank you for the link. But that page doesnt say anything about a landlord NOT giving you a lease to sign.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Do The Right Thing:

Pay him what you have agreed upon for the month, subtract valid expenses you've paid to fix/repair/replace stuff, and get the heck out of dodge.

Factor into this equation whether he has a security deposit, whether he's likely to refund it, and whatever your state law says about security deposits.

Life's too short for that sort of BS.

And tell him to keep his mitts off your guns.

 

[BryanP]

In my opinion, if you didn't sign a lease you owe him rent for the time spent in the apartment, nothing more. That said, legal advice is worth what you pay for it.

Go chat with a lawyer who specializes in CO real estate and contract law.

 

[Reyn]

Do you have proof of making payments to him? In Alabama he cant enter your residence. It's burglary. He would also have to go through the eviction process to remove you from the property. If you owe him money he could sue in court but he cant enter your residence.

 

[gm]

Its illegal for your landlord to enter your residence without your consent unless he had a valid emergency to do so. Id stick a hidden camera inside and catch him red handed. who knows, he might be thieving your personal belongings.


you might as well just pay him what you owe, he can get a small claims court to collect the rent and it will cost some money to fight it...but the sneaking around in your residence is something you might use against him if you had evidence to support it.


choose .....fight it but be prepared to spend some money or just pay the nosey guy and move.

 

[Azrael256]

Oral agreements are not binding when nobody else hears it and there is a dispute. JPs tend to toss 'em.

That said, it would not be unreasonable to assume that you did make an enforceable agreement. It is an apartment, for which landlords customarily charge rent, and any reasonable person will believe that you agreed to pay the rent when you moved in. You're not going to win that one in small claims court.

Pay for your housing. If you want to pop him for the (potentially) illegal entry, that's a separate issue.

 

[jnojr]

You could always make your last payment to the landlord contingent upon his signing a paper saying you don't owe a penny more. Or, write on the back of the check something like "By endorsing this check, the payee is acknowledging receipt of payment in full". I have no idea how legally binding that is... if someone were to give me a check like that, I would likely tell 'em to do it again, just on general principle, and threaten to just take them to court for the amount if they insist on something like that. But still... it could be fun to do!

 

[SMMAssociates]

IANAL....

The landlord or his agent can almost always enter a property for emergencies or "necessary" repairs. Not a heck of a lot you can do about that unless you can prove the entry was unnecessary, or actual damages occurred. (I.e., theft, dribbling your favorite scope, etc.)

I'd pay the rent - you had a verbal contract, and unless you can prove the landlord was imparing your ability to use the apartment, if you've occupied the apartment, you owe rent.

Then, if you want to go after the landlord for entering your property, that's another action. I would think you could break a lease on that basis, but doesn't mean much if you don't try to leave.

I lived in an apartment for about 7 years. During that time my guard service was patrolling the property. The maintenance guy was afraid to come in even if my car was missing.

 

[whm1974]

entering my apartment when I wasn't home and messing with my property (sometimes my guns were messed with).

I don't know about CO laws, but in other states he could into trouble handling his tedents guns like that. So could you if CO has "safe storage" laws and you don't have them locked up.

-Bill

 

[dman4384]

If you lived there for a month you reasonably owe a months rent.

Certainly you had oral discusions of the rent and the landlord didnt just invite you off the street to stay for free.

Offer him a months rent to drop the issue.

The landlord could certainly take you to court and proably win a months rent....but he might also win a full years lease if that was the original intention (I say might)

In other words, there is much to lose, and little to win.

Besides, paying the man for the time you spent there IS the right thing to do.

 

[thorn726]

thank God for Berkeley!!!


ok if you were here, all the guy could do is make you leave.

you didnt pay, you didnt sign a lease. you have no right to apt, but landlord would have no right ot money, especially with all those violations.

if my landlord pulled that here, i would be living rent free.

i never signed a lease, but once i paid, i have the equivalent of a month to month.
HA! here that means they CANT evict me without major just cause.

a good rent board is worth more than i can say

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Oral agreements are not binding when nobody else hears it and there is a dispute. JPs tend to toss 'em.

Incorrect.

Oral agreements ARE legally binding, whether or not heard by witnesses. The problem is that, without at least one witness, in the event of a dispute it is hard to prove that the agreement was agreed upon. Being unable to prove there was an agreement is not the same thing as an agreement not being valid.

 

[insidious_calm]

Month to month...

IANAL, but I am a landlord in Kansas. Here if you took "possession" of the property by accepting a key or moving in your stuff in the absence of a written lease you have just created a month to month lease or are in whats called adverse possession. Also note, here because you have not paid rent and have no written lease he can evict you with only three days notice to move. After that you create a whole different set of problems that can cost you a lot of money in court in an eviction proceeding. Also in Kansas, if you get evicted or move out and leave something behind the landlord can hold your stuff that you left until you pay what you owe AND charge you storage fees for storing your property safely. If you move take it all at once.

My advice - Pay whatever prorated rent you owe and get out. In the absence of a written lease you should be able to apply your security deposit toward whatever amount you owe. Also, do all your communication in writing. Hand deliver it with a witness if necessary. CYA! "Tacking" or affixing it to his/her door will suffice, just be sure to take a picture of it taped to the door or have someone with you.

You may also already be considered to be in whats known as "adverse possession". The landlord could argue that you have no right to possession at all. Technically, because you have not "consumated" any deal by paying ANY rent at all he could simply tell the sheriff that there was never an agreement reached and you moved in before one could be reached(=adverse possession) and ask the sherriff throw you out and then sue you for damages under adverse possession. In such a case in kansas you are not entitled to eviction proceedings because you never had legal possession of the property. The sherriff will tell you to leave or be arrested. In which case you have no legal grievance for the entry without notice or going through your things. FWIW.


I.C.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...since I never signed a lease or paid them for the 1 month rent can they legally do anything to me?

Both you and the landlord are in a legal quagmire. I'd suggest finding a decent place to live, signing the lease, paying the rent, and avoiding all manner of ugliness that could suddenly get very expensive. Your credit reputation, for example, is at stake.

 

[answerguy]

Adverse possession- This is the name given to a rule of law which said that if a person takes over a piece of land and remains in possession (i.e. control) of it, excluding the real owner and others from it for 12 years, he acquires a right to the land.
http://www.barsby.com/adversi2.html

What you are describing sounds more like squatting.

 

[answerguy]

HawkMoon

Incorrect.

Oral agreements ARE legally binding, whether or not heard by witnesses. The problem is that, without at least one witness, in the event of a dispute it is hard to prove that the agreement was agreed upon. Being unable to prove there was an agreement is not the same thing as an agreement not being valid.

My recollection of real estate law, at least in Michigan, is that oral contracts are not enforceable.