I have begun to notice a disturbing trend

[Onward Allusion]

PT1911

I have begun to notice a disturbing trend

Anytime a 4473 is filed, you're already indirectly registering your weapon. That's why there are those who prefer FTF transactions. There are only 47,664 Class 1 FFL @ 10.31.2010 out there. It would not be hard for the BATF to go around (quietly) and audit the FFL community and throw everything into a database. How many FFL holders do you think will put up a fight?

While there may be some rider or mandate that such a database not be allowed...things change - easily I might add.

As for TV, well...what can I say...

 

[Deanimator]

I have three words for you: "Law and Order".

People watch the various "Law and Orders" and "CSIs" and assume that gun laws EVERYWHERE are the same as those in New York, Las Vegas or Miami, depending upon which one they watch the most.

A lot of people are just stupid and believe whatever they see on FICTIONAL TV shows. If NBC started running an Iranian cop show, nitwits would start thinking that Federal law required women to wear chadors, and start trying to buy "black market" bacon and beer.

Thank Browning that VERY few people actually watch "Law and Order UK". Even MORE dolts would think you didn't have the right to remain silent.

 

[RandomPerson]

Perhaps when someone says this, you could chime in and tell them they watch too much TV and this is something Hollywood made up.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to my local gun store to pick up a revolver that can fire 200 times without reloading like I saw on TV last night.

 

[Deanimator]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to my local gun store to pick up a revolver that can fire 200 times without reloading like I saw on TV last night.

Yeah, but can it ALWAYS make a 90deg. deflection shot at 100 yards on the tire of a car going 90mph, and blow the tire off the rim like a 40mm HEDP round from a Mk19Mod3 the way [anti-gunner] Jack Lord always could on the old "Hawaii Five-O" using his 2" Model 36?

 

[FruitCake]

I get the same crap from people here in CT. If I want to sell them a long gun they think they have to register it and inform the athourities about the purchase and transfer and you don't as long as the person is of age. Even my boss who is into guns thinks that long guns have to be registered and he says"its just in case". Really frustating sometimes even when I look up the gun laws for him.

 

[mokin]

I've noticed this as well. I remember explaining that in Colorado you don't need to register your gun, or get a liscense, or permit, or whatever. The person I was talking to had a very hard time believing me. I chalked it up to too much TV.

 

[Jim Watson]

I think that traceability through manufacturer, distributor, and dealer records, customer 4473s and the liklihood that background check calls are not being deleted amount to defacto registration. Would the antis like to have a central registry to eliminate the "loopholes" of private sales? Sure, but they don't need it as much as we might think.

 

[Deanimator]

I've noticed this as well. I remember explaining that in Colorado you don't need to register your gun, or get a liscense, or permit, or whatever. The person I was talking to had a very hard time believing me. I chalked it up to too much TV.

A few years ago at Christmas dinner in Chicago, I explained to some relatives that:

In Ohio, I don't need a license to own a gun.
In Ohio, there's no registration.
In Ohio, I can carry a gun most places, with a license to carry.
The police have no legal duty to "protect" you as an individual.

I might as well have told them that I had a dinner date with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster at Navy Pier the next night.

 

[22-rimfire]

There is no question in my mind that the TV crime shows and most news networks have left new shooters or firearm purchasers with the conception that you must get a gun registered. In most cases, that is simply wrong.

I don't spend my time watching for black helicopters, but frankly, I am not confident that the ATF will not store the NICs check information to aid in their gun traces or future more stringent gun laws regardless of the "law". I hold to the belief that "nothing" is erased from government computers. Whether that bothers you or not depends on your belief system.

In PA, for example, transfer information is stored by the State Police in the form of a "registry". I believe that only applies to handguns at the moment, but with the recent change by the ATF on multiple long gun purchases in a week, the registry will likely contain "all" transfers in the near future. For the moment, the ATF change is on an "emergency basis" for 180 days, but I fully expect that to be a permanent change regardless of what gun owners want. PA does not consider a registry registration and I fully expect the ATF has the same belief system as an enforcement agency.

 

[Trent]

Wait a minute... I haven't seen this posted up yet.

"FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!"

There. Glad I got that out of my system.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Well then Michigan just sucks.
For every handgun I've ever purchased there was a required trip to the sheriffs office so they could check it out. Getting my CPL required a full fingerprinting. I guess that blew my chance at a life of crime....

 

[rondog]

I can count the number of guns I've bought from gun stores on one hand. But the ones I've bought in parking lots in FTF transactions, I couldn't even count. Just the way I prefer it. I even bought a rifle from an FBI agent, in his office, and all he wanted was a bill of sale and a handshake.

 

[Paints]

There are even cities with in states that do not require registration but the City does. Like in Ohio where I live, Cleveland, Cinncinatti and Van Wert all require registration of handguns, assualt rilfles per their definition and shotguns with the capabilty to load more than 3 shots.

No. Such local requirements have been struck down by Ohio law although a few hard headed cities are trying to ignore it and lawsuits have been filed against those cities (mostly the Cleveland area). Current Ohio law is very clear: cities may NOT enact legislation more strict than state law.

 

[Paints]

Registration by any other name is still registration. Even if you call it form 4473.

As far as the government is concerned, if you fill out 4473, you own the firearm until you can prove otherwise.

The bottom line is that 4473 can and will be used to trace firearms back to you, if at all possible. There would be no point whatsoever in having 4473 if that was not true.

Have you paid close attention the the 4473? There is no place on it to enter a serial number or model number. How could "you own it until you prove otherwise" when there is no identification as to what you bought?

 

[Paints]

A few years ago at Christmas dinner in Chicago, I explained to some relatives that:

In Ohio, I don't need a license to own a gun.
In Ohio, there's no registration.
In Ohio, I can carry a gun most places, with a license to carry.
The police have no legal duty to "protect" you as an individual.

You don't even need a license to carry in Ohio if you open carry, only if you conceal.

Ken

 

[Balrog]

Have you paid close attention the the 4473? There is no place on it to enter a serial number or model number. How could "you own it until you prove otherwise" when there is no identification as to what you bought?

ABSOLUTELY wrong.

The manufacturer, model, serial number, type, and caliber or gauge are recorded on form 4473 by the FFL, not the purchaser.

 

[chieftain]

As you folks can see I live in the free state of Arizona.

Most often the folks asking about registering and such are from California. We like to point out that in the United States of America it is a Civil Right to bear arms, and Arizona is in the USA, apparently California isn't.

Slightly o/t but you guys have it sooooo good compared with here in (once) Great Britain...

My own observation is that until the UK accepts the fact that their subjects have a "RIGHT OF SELF DEFENSE" you will get no where. As is so often the case when the issue is guns, it is an issue of Civil Rights. If you cannot legally defend yourself, and in today's world that means the ability to use a gun in self defense if and when needed, you frankly only have the rights allowed to you by your sovereign government leaders.

 

[CTPhil]

Have you paid close attention the the 4473? There is no place on it to enter a serial number or model number.

There is a place for a SS number, but filling it in is voluntary.

 

[PT1911]

Have you paid close attention the the 4473? There is no place on it to enter a serial number or model number. How could "you own it until you prove otherwise" when there is no identification as to what you bought?

Incorrect, you fill out the front and sign/date on the back of the front page... your License number and expiration are then recorded below that, the status of the NICS check below that and the gun info on the next page to include the make, model, serial number, caliber and type (shotgun, rifle, pistol, revolver) in addition to the shops stock number, the number of guns purchased, and pawn info.

The information called into the NICS check does not include the last page... only your personal information as well as long gun/handgun...

Your SS# is optional.

 

[GNLaFrance]

Have you paid close attention the the 4473? There is no place on it to enter a serial number or model number.

Welcome to ATF e-Form 4473

 

[trig1986]

Is a gun automatically registered when purchased?

The answer is no. When you buy a gun you recieve a copy of the reciept wich is usually yellow. If you just bought a gun, waited a couple days for processing,and you get pulled over driving home with it all you need is proof of purchase and ID. If you go to a shooting range police aren't there to specifically check for gun registration. It may seem that a gun is registered but if you give the gun to someone or sell it you don't give them registration forms,but take info such a DL# and name in case something comes up in the future.

 

[Balrog]

There is a place for a SS number, but filling it in is voluntary.

We arent talking about social security numbers.

 

[CTPhil]

My mistake. Comprehension fail.

 

[daorhgih]

What's trump ?

Can any city law, or any law / rule of any establishment (remembering, "White's Only At This Counter") trump a State's Constitution, or The U.S. Constitution? I didn't think so. Sure, a questioner may be hassled and locked up, but The Law is not a single person's right to break nor try to supersede, although many jurisdictions or 'zones" do try. YMMV.

 

[jeepguy]

good post i too live in ohio and can't even count how many times i have heard this or have been asked this, very sad.