I'm convincing myself that all steel is better and that Tanfoglio is a good handgun maker. It's expensive in Europe and polymer guns are cheaper. Even Walter Q5 is cheaper then. Tanfoglio Match and Limited is another 300$ up. So my budget is getting hammered and i'm not sure if i'll get more gun for the price compared to higher end polymer guns or other steel guns. 1911 are hard to get here.
I need shooters help! Which gun to buy? All steel vs. polymer.
- Thread starter John36
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MachIVshooter
Member
Where are you? I would think Tanfoglios would be pretty competitively priced in Western Europe, especially being made there. They're definitely popular from what I gather, dominating a lot of competitions. Eric Grauffel is a 6 time IPSC world champ sponsored by Tanfoglio.
Here in the US, a Match is about $700 USD, the Limited about $1,100 USD. Up quite a bit from when they were introduced, but still reasonable. I recall paying just under $900 for my Limited in 2007.
zb338
Member
You didn't say a revolver was out, sounds like it is. For your
purposes an L-frame S&W in .357 magnum would really do it
for you. You could shoot wadcutters and mid range loads when
you are shooting target and .357 for serious stuff.
Zeke
purposes an L-frame S&W in .357 magnum would really do it
for you. You could shoot wadcutters and mid range loads when
you are shooting target and .357 for serious stuff.
Zeke
Confederate
Member
Have you considered a S&W second- or third-generation pistol?
Like the all-stainless steel 645 .45ACP (top) or 9mm 659 or...
The 4506 .45ACP third gen, or...
The 5906 9mm third gen?
They're great guns and easy on the eyes.
Like the all-stainless steel 645 .45ACP (top) or 9mm 659 or...
The 4506 .45ACP third gen, or...
The 5906 9mm third gen?
They're great guns and easy on the eyes.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Everyone keeps suggesting American guns. I said in Post #18 I didn't think the OP lived in the USA and in Post #26 he verified that. The import taxes on our guns might make them too expensive to buy, if they are available. You might have noticed like I did the guns he was discussing were all based overseas.
I would say for $1200 you could get the PPQ M2 and an all steel CZ SP01 Tactical with night sights and a threaded barrel and possibly still have money left over. The PPQs can be found for under $500 and the CZ for $625-$650. They both are truly high end guns that don't go for high end prices....why settle for 1 when you can have 2.....and the PPQ can be conceal carried if you ever changed your mind and wanted too.
Americans are spoiled with really low gun prices 
For example, Tanfoglio Match (Witness) is 1220 eur=1300$+,Limited is 1600$. Standard CZ 75 sp01 is over 1000$, Walther PPQ Q5 Match is 1250$. Even Glocks are somewhere between 900 and 1100$. And it is very complicated to import guns.
For example, Tanfoglio Match (Witness) is 1220 eur=1300$+,Limited is 1600$. Standard CZ 75 sp01 is over 1000$, Walther PPQ Q5 Match is 1250$. Even Glocks are somewhere between 900 and 1100$. And it is very complicated to import guns.
MachIVshooter
Member
Yikes!
That's true here as well, if an importer doesn't already bring it in. Lots of stuff that is 100% legal to manufacture domestically is restricted from importation, and even that which is not takes a lot of jumping through hoops to make it happen. I was interested in a Tanfoglio model that EAA didn't import at one time, but even though it wasn't prohibited, getting it here was way more frustration than it was worth.
Lucky for us, though, the market here is so big that many manufacturers will set up shop in the states just to be able to sell to us what they can't import. Beretta, CZ, FN, Glock and many more.
bannockburn
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Between the two, and primarily for the range, I would go with the Tanfoglio Match. Would love to have the Limited but definitely getting up there in price.
Torian
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Echo the Tanfoglio recommendation. I purchased an Elite Match in 10mm for 500 about 7 years ago, and it easily has the best trigger pull and overall feel of any semiauto in my collection. It shoots as accurately as my SW PC 627.This gun will be used on a range only, mostly indoors. When i tried Walther PPQ M2, which is known for it's great grip and trigger and then tried Tanfoglio range of guns...it's like two different worlds. Balance, grip, trigger, feel...all better on Tanfoglio. The problem is, i DON'T want to buy Tanfoglio since a lot of people is shooting with them around me and i like to be different AND better
But this time it really looks i'll have to go where everybody are going. CZ was also good, but somehow i don't like the looong grip on it. Tanfoglio Limited also looks great and it's single action:
I would really like to love polymer guns but...steel feels that much better. Maybe Walther Q5 Match can "match" them, or CZ 75 TS.
gotboostvr
Member
I keep telling myself I need a Tangfolio 10mm for deer hunting, but I know it won't do anything my S&W 629 can't already do with more authority.
I still want one though. I may pick up a RIA 10mm 1911 just to scratch that itch though. I almost worked out a deal for a 10mm SAO Sig 220, but it fell through.
I still want one though. I may pick up a RIA 10mm 1911 just to scratch that itch though. I almost worked out a deal for a 10mm SAO Sig 220, but it fell through.
gotboostvr
Member
Edit: double tap
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MachIVshooter
Member
Except hold 2.5 times the ammo
Not that this is really a factor in hunting, but definitely something to consider for defense, be it from 2 or 4 legged critters. And hot 10mm loads have penetration nearly equal heavy .44 loads. I'd rather face an angry bear with sixteen 10mm rounds than six .44 mag.
Sourcing is important. There is no value to the OP if he can't get the gun. I could recommend the 4566TSW all day long with auction prices in the low $400s, it doesn't do him any good. He's not here. Major obstacle.
With that list in mind I would attempt to get hands on with those guns on a range. It's a lot of money and being able to at least handle and shoot one would be more informative. Grip angle, thickness, finger length of pull, control positions, where it sits in the web of the hand, perception of recoil, trigger weight, break, and reset all have an influence on it. That can't be explained or pictured on the internet. It has to be experienced to know what it will really be like. How much you have to pull a trigger back to discharge it is unique to the individual and how their hand works with that specific gun.
One model to another, things can be signficantly or even dramatically different. In the S&W line DA trigger pulls of up to 12 pounds aren't unknown, with the TSW series and factory tuning it can drop to as little as 8. A match gun, less. It does make a difference what the purpose of the gun was intended to be and how that was accomplished. Duty guns and competition guns are two different things and don't necessarily share the same characteristics. In point of fact, they shouldn't, and aren't interchangeable despite the claims of some.
The OP has a short list, time to actually fire them to know.
With that list in mind I would attempt to get hands on with those guns on a range. It's a lot of money and being able to at least handle and shoot one would be more informative. Grip angle, thickness, finger length of pull, control positions, where it sits in the web of the hand, perception of recoil, trigger weight, break, and reset all have an influence on it. That can't be explained or pictured on the internet. It has to be experienced to know what it will really be like. How much you have to pull a trigger back to discharge it is unique to the individual and how their hand works with that specific gun.
One model to another, things can be signficantly or even dramatically different. In the S&W line DA trigger pulls of up to 12 pounds aren't unknown, with the TSW series and factory tuning it can drop to as little as 8. A match gun, less. It does make a difference what the purpose of the gun was intended to be and how that was accomplished. Duty guns and competition guns are two different things and don't necessarily share the same characteristics. In point of fact, they shouldn't, and aren't interchangeable despite the claims of some.
The OP has a short list, time to actually fire them to know.
gotboostvr
Member
MachIV, true on both points.
I don't need much more penetration than what a 240gr XTP offers on the deer that I hunt, and we don't really have any toothy predators in the Ohio woods.
Anything on 2 or more legs I'd need to dispatch 'roun these parts my 357's/9's/45's should handle sufficiently.
If not, I can always step up to my 500mag!
I don't need much more penetration than what a 240gr XTP offers on the deer that I hunt, and we don't really have any toothy predators in the Ohio woods.
Anything on 2 or more legs I'd need to dispatch 'roun these parts my 357's/9's/45's should handle sufficiently.
If not, I can always step up to my 500mag!
chaim
Member
When looking at full-sized range guns (autos, I'll ignore the revolvers), here is what I've ended up with over the years:
-Ruger P89. Not accurate. Sold after about a year
-Charles Daly 1911. Started my love of 1911s, comfortable to shoot, points naturally, highly accurate, mostly reliable. Eventually sold, I miss it
-CZ 75B in 9mm. Accurate (the most accurate gun I have in my hands, only the 1911 competes), reliable (well over 10K rounds, probably 15-20K, very few hiccups), feels like a part of my hand
-CZ 40B. Never should have sold it
-SIG P226 in 9mm. Good gun, almost as good (for me) as my CZ. Sold it, don't miss it much, but it was a great gun
-SIG P229 in .40. Accurate, felt great in my hand, reliable, rivaled my CZ 75B for favorite auto. I sold it when I needed rent money some years back and miss it greatly.
-S&W 1911SC. It is full sized if you consider a Commander sized alloy gun a full sized. Love it, though may trade it for an all steel full sized 1911.
Of course, I've shot quite a few that I didn't own.
I am a huge CZ fan (just bought a P01 for carry). If you don't like the long grip of the (18 round) SP01, I'd suggest trying something closer to the original CZ 75 grip. If competition or high end range guns are what you are after, there are options. The 85 Combat, 75B SA (SAO), 75 Shadow Tac II, and 75 Tactical Sport all may work for you. They are 16 round guns, and all but the SA have adjustable sights. If you have small hands and want an even smaller grip, the steel CZ 75 Compact, or alloy CZ P01 or PCR may work for you (slightly shorter 14 round guns).
If I was looking at a range gun with a blank slate, my strong second choice would be an alloy SIG P229 or P226 (I prefer the P229, but YMMV) or a 1911 (though .45ACP isn't that popular in Europe, and I'd prefer the 1911 in .45 over 9mm, unless the 9mm was a 2nd or 3rd 1911).
-Ruger P89. Not accurate. Sold after about a year
-Charles Daly 1911. Started my love of 1911s, comfortable to shoot, points naturally, highly accurate, mostly reliable. Eventually sold, I miss it
-CZ 75B in 9mm. Accurate (the most accurate gun I have in my hands, only the 1911 competes), reliable (well over 10K rounds, probably 15-20K, very few hiccups), feels like a part of my hand
-CZ 40B. Never should have sold it
-SIG P226 in 9mm. Good gun, almost as good (for me) as my CZ. Sold it, don't miss it much, but it was a great gun
-SIG P229 in .40. Accurate, felt great in my hand, reliable, rivaled my CZ 75B for favorite auto. I sold it when I needed rent money some years back and miss it greatly.
-S&W 1911SC. It is full sized if you consider a Commander sized alloy gun a full sized. Love it, though may trade it for an all steel full sized 1911.
Of course, I've shot quite a few that I didn't own.
I am a huge CZ fan (just bought a P01 for carry). If you don't like the long grip of the (18 round) SP01, I'd suggest trying something closer to the original CZ 75 grip. If competition or high end range guns are what you are after, there are options. The 85 Combat, 75B SA (SAO), 75 Shadow Tac II, and 75 Tactical Sport all may work for you. They are 16 round guns, and all but the SA have adjustable sights. If you have small hands and want an even smaller grip, the steel CZ 75 Compact, or alloy CZ P01 or PCR may work for you (slightly shorter 14 round guns).
If I was looking at a range gun with a blank slate, my strong second choice would be an alloy SIG P229 or P226 (I prefer the P229, but YMMV) or a 1911 (though .45ACP isn't that popular in Europe, and I'd prefer the 1911 in .45 over 9mm, unless the 9mm was a 2nd or 3rd 1911).
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MICHAEL T
Member
I'd get a LTW Colt Commander in 9mm . Shooting mine is a pleasure
Rock185
Member
John36, I would very much advise purchase of which ever pistol most appeals to you,i.e., looks, build quality, features, how it feels in your hand,etc. That is the pistol you'll feel best about owning, take care of and practice with. For instance, couple years ago I purchased a new HK USP Expert model, due to many reports as to the excellence of this pistol. They were right. It was a fine pistol, as accurate as anything I've owned, totally reliable with many kinds of ammo, best SA trigger of any DA/SA pistol I ever owned. But the gun overall, and mainly the grip, just did not fit me no matter how much I tried to like it. I soon sold it. Even though it fit many other shooters, and I valued their opinions, the gun did not fit me.. Best of luck with your decision. It appears you have reduced your search to three good quality pistols that are available in your area......ymmv
I agree. We Americans are spoiled by the relatively easy availability of a wide variety of firearms, ammunition, reloading equipment, components and accessories at competitive prices.
I agree. We Americans are spoiled by the relatively easy availability of a wide variety of firearms, ammunition, reloading equipment, components and accessories at competitive prices.
I decided to go with CZ 75 TS. I had huge luck that one just came to the shop when i was there so i tried it, liked it a lot and bought it. The only thing i'll do is change the grip to thinner aluminium one and change the rear sight to adjustable one.
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