IDPA CDP- is 8 round mag really max?

[InTheBlack]

In another thread someone opined that 8 round magazines are the maximum allowed in the CDP division of IDPA.

At the local match the other day someone said the same thing, but someone else said no, 10 rounds were OK as long as the magazine doesn't weigh some amount more than some standard weight, based on a question he asked IDPA headquarters some time ago.

I thought that 10 rounders were simply allowable.

Anyone care enough to read the rule book?

 

[cadfael]

My understanding is that 10 rd mags are allowed. Just loaded with up to 8 rds.

From the Green Book about CDP:

Pistol including empty magazine must fit in a box measuring 8 3/4" x 6" x 1 5/8" and have a maximum unloaded weight of 41 ounces. To reduce cost and provide a level playing field for all pistols permitted, the maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is eight (8).

And on the list of excluded modifications.

Add-on weights, weighted magazines, tungsten guide rods, extended dust covers

So a stock 10 rd magazine that is not heavier than a 8 rder (and provides no competitive advantage) should be OK.

Adam

 

[mpthole]

My understanding is that 10 rd mags are allowed. Just loaded with up to 8 rds.

I concur.

 

[Hoser]

High Cap mags, Fat Mags, are legal when downloaded to 8 rounds in IDPA.

However, 10 round single stack mags downloaded to 8 rounds are not legal in IDPA.

This is because the gun, with mag instered, must fit in the box.

Go to page 12 of the rulebook. http://www.idpa.com/rulebook5-2-01/Rulebook.pdf

But I will never turn any shooter away if they want to shoot. I just score them in the outlaw division. Thats where most IPSC shooters looking for more trigger time end up.

 

[HankB]

I won't say you'll never encounter some "by the book" martinet of a match director somewhere, but it's been my observation that at "club level" matches many of the nitpicking rules aren't enforced as rigorously as the guys in Arkansas would like. (Safety rules are the only things enforced with great vigor - which I approve of.)

 

[Gunfyter]

This is a question that I keep trying to get the correct answer on. If the IDPA stage calls for 9 rounds, what difference does it make if a 10 round mag with 9 rounds is loaded vs chambering a round from a 7 round mag and then replacing with an 8 round mag. 9 rounds is 9 rounds. I'm glad that at the club level a lot of the rules are relaxed other than SAFETY.

 

[Jim Watson]

Gunfyter,

By the rules there is nothing against loading your CDP with a 10 - round magazine containing 9 cartridges. The limit is 8 rounds IN THE MAGAZINE PLUS A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER, and inserting a mag containing nine and racking the slide gets you there. Actually 8+1 is a REQUIREMENT on any scenario stage where a reload is required or even likely. They don't want you using different magazines or top off/not top off gimmicks to schedule slide lock reloads.

There are three things to beware of.
1. Doing that on a range where your habits and equipment are not well known will get you questioned, the SOs are used to seeing people using a Barney Bullet mag or shuffling around a lot to get the chamber charged. I know I spent more time explaining myself when loading my CZ75 with a standard magazine containing 11 than it would have taken to top it up with a separate mag.

2. As hoser says, this is legal only with a widebody .45; a 10 - round 1911 magazine protrudes too much to go in the Box. Maybe your club doesn't care.

3. If you slip up and REload with a magazine containing nine, that is a rule violation. It would be noticed only on a long stage or one you were missing and making up a lot on. I would give it a Procedural the first time, a FTDR the second. I did this once with my CZ on a stage with a lot of small steel that took a lot of shooting, grabbed a magazine with the extra round and saved a reload. Oops. So I went to just loading 10 and carrying a cheap magazine with a couple of Barney Bullets to top off with.

 

[GeneS]

Jim Watson's comments are 100% correct. He's also more forgiving than some if you slipped up and loaded too many rounds in the gun. I've seen it happen a couple of times and a FTDR was called each time. I don't think the rule book specifies the penalty though.

 

[2speed]

"CUSTOM DEFENSIVE PISTOL division is intended to offer a place in competition for shooters using the "practical" custom 1911 style .45 single stack pistols, while still allowing shooters using the various hi-capacity pistols such as the Para-Ordnance, STI/SVI and Glock 20/21 to compete on equal ground." "To reduce cost and provide a level playing field for all pistols permitted, the maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is eight (8)." Both quotes above are from the current Rulebook under the CDP rules.


FWIW, this is my take on the loading of too many rounds.


If I KNOW you're a rookie, and your doing this gives you no advantage, then you'll just get a lecture the first time, then a procedural the 2nd , then a FTDR the 3rd. Or, if I perceive the loading as an accident, I'll just go with a procedural; If I think you are "gaming it" for a tactical advantage, it's a FTDR. The shooter usually gets the benefit of doubt, if there is any. This is my opinion and my squad at a match. Like all "opinions" everybody has one, etc. etc. etc..

 

[Beorn]

Some of the clubs that follow strict rules will give a person a procedural if they just insert a mag and rack the slide. In CDP you are supposed to have MAX 8 rounds in the mag, PLUS 1 in the pipe.

So, have a Barney mag handy.

 

[Poohgyrr]

We always have a short meeting with all the competitors right before the match starts. Part of this meeting is covering how the folks in charge at thatmatch want things done and answering questions. Any new questions should be asked and clarified as they come up during the match; I make sure to ask before I shoot.

This solves most problems. The rest I just deal with.

 

[cadfael]

Apparently, some of you shoot at stricter matches than I do.

At every match I've been to, as long as you inform the SO that that your mag has an additional round loaded prior to "Load and Make Ready" you are in the clear.

The problem comes is when you're shooting SSP and load 12 in the mag...(accidentally of course) or load 11 in one of your reload mags. So barney mags are definitely a good idea.

Adam

 

[KP95DAO]

I received a procedural in the 2000 Nationals for loading 11 rounds in one of my 15 rnd mags. I've never done that again. That's why I use 10 rounders with my G23. I do use my Witness 45 in CDP and have to keep an eye on the round count in the mag.

 

[Matthew_Q]

KP95... man, that's a crock... I'd have given a little protest, but if the SO wants to be a dick about it, fine. I'm just trying to safe HIM and ME a little time in the prep.

I mean, you load 11, rack the slide and holster, and you're ready. You are at the same point as if you loaded 10 and used a mag with just one round to chamber, then switched to the 10 and holstered. Rediculous.

I did get a procedural at the last IDPA match for a 'speed reload' on one stage. Sure, I kinda agree with it, but hell, it was my second IDPA match, I didn't know you COULDN'T do that! I thought you could drop an empty mag, but it turns out, you can only do that if it's a slide lock (dry gun), or if the scenario calls for it. Learning experience!

 

[GSMD Fan]

KP95DAO,

I second that. You got rooked. I have never shot at nationals but a couple of state and regional matchs.

11 in a mag should be fine for your first mag.
I keep the first mag in my pocket, then ten rounders on the belt.

I can't see why it would be a difference.
Actually it makes "gassing up" quicker and easier for a competitor.