IDPA with my carry rig?

[9mmepiphany]

Just curious, would the trigger job be what would make my pistol "Enhanced" over "Stock"? In other words, since I haven't gotten a kit put on it yet, would it be considered stock for now?

Nope it isn't the kit that puts it in the ESP class. It is that the XD's action is considered SA, making it ESP, as opposed to the Glock or S&W M&P's triggers being classified as DA ...and shoot in SSP

I'm currently shooting an M&P with enough external changes to make it ESP. If you add texturing to a Glock, that would move it from SSP to ESP

 

[Sam1911]

As a new shooter, I'd also recommend you (gasp...what am I saying!?! ) not try to digest the whole rule book.

Instead look at this: http://www.richmondhotshots.com/docs/IDPA New Shooter Info.pdf

If you can read and try to understand as much of that as possible, you'll be ahead of the game. Then, when you've shot a match, read it again and the terms will make a lot more sense.

Also, for heaven's sake tell the match staff and each SO that you are brand new. They'll be very happy to have a new shooter on board, and they'll be able to give you the extra attention and advice that will keep you safe and successful.

ALWAYS remember that the only thing that really matters is that you are safe. If that means you have to come to a full dead stop and ask for help -- that's FINE. The SOs will very much appreciate you wanting to be safe rather than bulling through something you weren't sure about. Keep your muzzle downrange always. Don't try to go faster than what you can do safely, and the day will be a great success.

 

[Sam1911]

And yes, just like 9mmepiphany said, your xD puts you automatically in ESP class, period. When I shoot the plastic fantastic, that's what I'm shooting as well, though mine is the full-sized xDM. No mods at all, and I can't compete against the Glocks because of a silly administrative rule...

Hopefully they'll change that with the new rules update coming out next year.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Just go. Tell whoever is signing you up that you are new, and they'll squad you with someone there who has the role of mentoring the newbies.

 

[Sam1911]

...they'll squad you with someone there who has the role of mentoring the newbies.

Hopefully he's not too "Harsh!" (Hee hee, inside joke. )

 

[BullfrogKen]

Oh Lord.

 

[GarySTL]

Watch what the other shooters do, paste targets, and ask questions if unsure. You'll have a good time and make new friends.

Remember, the worst day at the range is better than the best day at work!

 

[Six]

I've looked up the rules and such for IDPA, as well as the brief description on the sticky on this site, but they don't really tell me what normally is used in IDPA, or what setups people normally go with.

I shoot an M&P Pro 9mm with a Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight, APEX aftermarket trigger parts, from a Blade Tech DOH Holster (DO part removed). It's about as fancy as you can get and still be shooting in SSP.

I've also shot with a compact Glock 19 from a homemade IWB holster with a single spare mag in my pocket.

People will run a wide variety of equipment depending on their goals. Do you want to win, or do you want to just have fun, or practice with your everyday carry gear?

Each is fun and challenging in a different way, and none is better or more "IDPA" than the other.

Sloppy nylon holsters or unsafe handling aside, as long as your gear is functional and safe, shoot it however and with whatever you want. You're not going to win the first match, and no one is going to send you home from your first match for having equipment that technically breaks a rule.

Then just go shoot, tell them you're new and want some guidance, listen, be safe, help paste targets and clean up. After the match, read the rulebook and see if the rules make sense now that you have some context. After a while it gets tiresome learning the rulebook one penalty at a time

 

[ny32182]

The maximum "minimum round count" for any stage in IDPA is 18, and most will be less than that. If it is more than that, the stage is not technically IDPA legal. A good rule for how much ammo to bring is the number of stages times 20.

My advice would be DON'T worry about over-thinking your gear or other things the first time out. All that will evolve as you go anyway. All you REALLY need for gear the first time out is gun, strong side holster, 3 mags, ammo, eyes, ears. The rest will take care of itself; if you want to load out of your pockets the first time that is just fine.

Tell them you are new, and they will explain the safety rules. They are not joking about the safety rules, so listen, and really think about them, and think about what it will take to actually observe them on each stage. For example: Many stages have you backing up to one degree or another, and your natural inclination may be to turn and run uprange. I've seen far too many newbies do this without keeping the gun downrange at the same time, and unfortunately that is the end of the day for them. Just remember, muzzle down range at all times is the primary safety rule; if you can do that everything else will fall into place. Also note that your feet and your chin are not "downrange"; lots of newbies like to point the gun at one or both for some reason.

Finally, as a new shooter you should go last or almost last in the shooting order your first match or two. So, watch how the people in front of you shoot the stage, and do it the same way they do to the exent possible. And enjoy.

 

[Sam1911]

The maximum "minimum round count" for any stage in IDPA is 18, and most will be less than that. If it is more than that, the stage is not technically IDPA legal. A good rule for how much ammo to bring is the number of stages times 20.

Well, the maximum "minimum round count" for any one STRING of fire is 18 rounds. You can have a multi-string stage that exceeds that, though they aren't common. I think the highest I've shot was 3 stages of 12 round each, for a total of 36 rounds, and that was in a Sanctioned match.

CoF 19. No string of fire may exceed a maximum requirement of eighteen (18) rounds.

Do not exceed eighteen (18) rounds per string of fire.

 

[ny32182]

Ah. Good call Sam.

90+% of stages consist of one timed "string". A very few specialized non-"scenario" stages will have more than one.

 

[Sam1911]

That is so. It may depend on your local range and MD, though. We use at least one multi-start (multi-string) stage in just about every match as it helps balance out short stages with the longer ones to keep the squads flowing at an even pace and reduce the wait times.

Our club has a mix of short bays where we do speed drills and other fast-n-dirty stuff, longer field-course bays, the indoor range, and two shoot houses. I'll usually make the shortest bay (or two) a two or three start stage (3 different cover drills, for example) to deliberately slow that stage down to try to keep the squads from stacking up waiting to work through the shoot house.

(We run our shoot house as a blind stage and for safety reasons we never have more than one SO and one shooter past the entrance berms in that bay at one time, so it takes each shooter about 5 minutes to work through it and then work back scoring and pasting.)

 

[Series 70]

Yeah, the "skills" stages are often limited Vickers scoring (a specific number of shots fired, rather than hits) and usually multi-string at my club. The different strings sometimes vary the shooting hand.

My favorite skills stages are steel which are also setup for post-match shoot-offs. Ten poppers in a line with the middle two angled to fall overlapping. Two challengers start at the outside and work their way in. The overlapping popper on the bottom fell first and declares the winner. Obviously, the other four poppers on the shooter's side must fall first.

It always brings a smile to hear, "You! Series 70! Bring that POS 1911 over here and feel my plastic pain!"

 

[tarakian]

Just curious, would the trigger job be what would make my pistol "Enhanced" over "Stock"? In other words, since I haven't gotten a kit put on it yet, would it be considered stock for now?

No, the XD is considered ESP from the factory. It has to do with the trigger type. In SSP the first pull is supposed to be double action, and from my understanding, the striker of the XD is pre-loaded and therefore not considered DA. I know there is a bit of controversy over why the XD was singled out to be ESP, but Glocks, M&Ps, etc are SSP. I'm sure one of the more learned members of this forum can explain it better than me.

Heck, I got called crazy by an SO last weekend when he realized I was shooting my Para P14 in ESP, instead of CDP. As in "Why would you want to compete against all of the people with their bunny fart loads?". Personally, I shoot IDPA, USPSA, trap, 3 gun, etc for trigger time and fun with my friends. My only goal is to get better than I am and maybe beat my friends now and again. When I started IDPA a couple of years ago, I used a friends revolver. Never having shot one before, that made for an interesting first match. Spent a lot of time loading shells from my pocket and finished dead last by a huge margin. I still had a blast and met a lot of good people willing to help me out, not a single person had any negative comments. I now typically shoot 4 IDPA matches a month, plus all the other ones.

 

[Sam1911]

Yeah. The xDs get a bad shake. The Glock's striker is not fully pre-loaded, nor fully relaxed, but it was considered to be close enough to a "DAO" or DA/SA gun to make it into SSP.

The xD's striker is closer to fully pre-loaded. Most users couldn't tell the difference by feel or operation (which SHOULD have been the criteria... ) but that bumped it into ESP as a "single-action" system.

The M&P SOMEHOW made it into SSP even though it is closer to an xD than to a Glock in operation. Supposedly there is a hair of rearward motion in the striker as you draw back the trigger.

One of the premier M&P gunsmiths is a shooting pal of mine and he's said a few times something to the effect that it just about takes a magnifying glass to see that rearward motion, but it puts his guns into SSP (especially with a good trigger kit) so he's happy! LOL.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Just go. Tell whoever is signing you up that you are new, and they'll squad you with someone there who has the role of mentoring the newbies.

That. I spent too much time fretting over the small things like you're doing Skribs. Once I went, I realized I should've went way sooner. You'll have fun, guaranteed.

on point #2...yeah you guys are right. I'm thinking (because of practice I did in front of a mirror) that maybe I should change to a belt rig, but again, I'd only make the change for the sake of the game if it's how I'd carry. Guess I better go ask in the appropriate forum what people use for CCW for their spare mags.

Try carrying that spare mag in your pocket and doing a reload at a decent speed while under the pressure of being a 1st time IDPA shooter.

Just go.

You'll have a blast.

 

[Skribs]

Considering that both moderators in that "inside joke" are from PA, I'm wondering which one was "harsh" to the other...

Lots of good information you guys are providing me here, thanks everyone. Sam, the full size is on my radar for the future, but until I can afford to have both, I'd rather have the compact.

 

[Sam1911]

Considering that both moderators in that "inside joke" are from PA, I'm wondering which one was "harsh" to the other...

Ha ha....no. We have a rather amazing fellow at our range who's been a Safety Officer working "practical" matches and training (an integral part of the NTI for 20 years, I think) for decades. He is a stellar teacher of new shooters and takes it upon himself to shepard our new guys and gals for their first few months of practice and matches. He's got a great balance of firm command and gentle patience, plus the unusual mentality that guns are for fighting primarily, and that the only way to do this is to jump in and start swimming. He is, essentially, the rock upon which our practical shooting club is anchored.

His name is Herschel, but he's universally known as "Hersch."

The running joke is that there are always new folks poking their head in the club house door on Thrusday nights looking for "Harsh." And he's not Harsh at all!

Silly, but ROTFL funny if you knew him.

 

[BullfrogKen]

And he has Kenny Rogers hair.


http://www.menwholooklikekennyrogers.com/

 

[Skribs]

Off topic, but pardon my youth: Who is Kenny Rogers?

 

[BullfrogKen]

Google him young man.

 

[Jim Watson]

The xDs get a bad shake.

The XD didn't GET a bad shake, they did it to themselves. The manufacturer and original importer (before Springfield applied their name and raised the price) called it out as equivalent to single action with safety gimmicks, apparently to differentiate themselves from Glock. So they end up in a different division in IDPA (althought the same in USPSA) and get few if any government contracts.

Agree about the Plastic M&P, that one is double action only by creative advertising and exploitation of a long history with government agencies. I think my CZ 75 hammer cammed back as far as my PM&P striker... before I had them both worked over.

 

[Sam1911]

Ok, that's true, and you're right. The CZ-75 often will cam back a bit in SA. Maybe you should be able to run it C&L in SSP then!?!

 

[Skribs]

I think I'll just bring both my Remora pocket mag holders and my Springfield double mag holder, and then while I'm there decide which I want to use and ask others what they use.

I've read through the rules and I'm pretty sure I understand them. Keep the muzzle in the lines (otherwise the SO will yell "muzzle"), keep the finger off the trigger (or he'll yell "finger"), reload using cover, and otherwise follow the course outline and shoot stuff. Gun empty unless it's my turn, and then only loaded when I'm told to.

I know y'all said "just go" but it looks like I'm going to have some time to chat on here before the next one in my area. Do you think I should just go to observe my first time, or should I just jump in and sign up to compete?

 

[ForumSurfer]

Do you think I should just go to observe my first time, or should I just jump in and sign up to compete?

Compete. 100% without a doubt. Observe if you wish, but you'll wish you had competed.

Make it known you're a newbie. You'll get to observe others go before you.