gamestalker
member
I really don't think anyone could have said it better or set the record straighter than did RCmodel ! The powder and primers are incredibly stable and resistent to adverse conditions. I've done it before without incident.
If I Tumble "SLOWLY" Enough... Is It Safe To Tumble Loaded Cartridges?
- Thread starter Mike1234567
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That brought up visions of the hold of an old Chinese steamer, you know the ones where they copied the Liberty ships, filled to the brim with all this Russian ammunition headed to capitalist America. The ship shudders with each time a cylinder fires on the engine causing a cacophony of noise in the hold as the steel cases shake and shudder around.
Sorry about the distraction.
Rollis R. Karvellis
Member
Though I, have never flown in one, I, bet the C130's hauling, supplies produce some vibration also.
JohnM
Member
Some, but not bad. Don't have any idea how many hours I spent in one of those. The ones we used were pretty noisy.
We usually got out before they landed the damn things though.
SSN Vet
Member
great resolution on those powder pics....
I'm impressed
I'm impressed
T Bran
Member
If you are concerned just put the tumbler in a trash can out in the yard sort of a redneck blast shield. I agree with RC nothing bad will happen. I once tumbled a box of Black Talons that were so nasty from water and gunk in a flooded basement that you would not recognise them. No problem but it took a full day to clean them up.
T
T
bigedp51
member
There are warnings not to put live ammunition in your case tumblers.
There are warnings not to send text messages on your phone while driving.
There are warnings not to drink and drive.
There are warnings not to lube your ammo and excess bolt thrust.
And right now at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ there is a person giving out reloading information at this website. The problem is this person doesn't have a reloading press or even cast bullets.
At another website a psychic forum member told me I needed lasik eye surgery.
Sooner or later the drunk driver sending text messages on his phone is going to run head on into a brick wall.
Did any of you read about "NOT" filling your gas cans on the tailgate of trucks with plastic bed liners and the buildup of static electricity and the resulting fires.
Lets see these tumblers have rubber pads on the bottom of the tumbler and are not grounded and static electricity can build up in the tumbler bowl.
Have any of you ever refueled an aircraft, the aircraft and the refueling source are grounded to the same grounding point and the refueling source is grounded to the aircraft.
And then you have people who ignore printed warnings because they think nothing will happen to them.
How many case tumblers have a three prong plug? Go ahead and keep playing with matches.
This is nothing more than arrogance of the highest order........
There are warnings not to send text messages on your phone while driving.
There are warnings not to drink and drive.
There are warnings not to lube your ammo and excess bolt thrust.
And right now at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ there is a person giving out reloading information at this website. The problem is this person doesn't have a reloading press or even cast bullets.
At another website a psychic forum member told me I needed lasik eye surgery.
Sooner or later the drunk driver sending text messages on his phone is going to run head on into a brick wall.
Did any of you read about "NOT" filling your gas cans on the tailgate of trucks with plastic bed liners and the buildup of static electricity and the resulting fires.
Lets see these tumblers have rubber pads on the bottom of the tumbler and are not grounded and static electricity can build up in the tumbler bowl.
Have any of you ever refueled an aircraft, the aircraft and the refueling source are grounded to the same grounding point and the refueling source is grounded to the aircraft.
And then you have people who ignore printed warnings because they think nothing will happen to them.
How many case tumblers have a three prong plug? Go ahead and keep playing with matches.
This is nothing more than arrogance of the highest order........
I'm just guessin', but...
snuffy
Member
So what? Static electricity won't even set off exposed gunpowder, how can static do anything to a loaded cartridge?
Are you scared of your own shadow? Do you fear getting hit by meteors? With petty fears like yours, you better stay in bed, hoping it don't colapse and crush you.
What a bunch of paranoid ramblings. You better not be a shooter, nothing could ever be safe enough for you.
You'd better call the big four ammo companies here in the U.S. to tell them to stop tumbling their ammo before it's boxed up.
[QUOTEThere are warnings not to put live ammunition in your case tumblers.
There are warnings not to send text messages on your phone while driving.
There are warnings not to drink and drive.
There are warnings not to lube your ammo and excess bolt thrust.
And right now at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ there is a person giving out reloading information at this website. The problem is this person doesn't have a reloading press or even cast bullets.
At another website a psychic forum member told me I needed lasik eye surgery.
Sooner or later the drunk driver sending text messages on his phone is going to run head on into a brick wall.
Did any of you read about "NOT" filling your gas cans on the tailgate of trucks with plastic bed liners and the buildup of static electricity and the resulting fires.
Lets see these tumblers have rubber pads on the bottom of the tumbler and are not grounded and static electricity can build up in the tumbler bowl.
Have any of you ever refueled an aircraft, the aircraft and the refueling source are grounded to the same grounding point and the refueling source is grounded to the aircraft.
And then you have people who ignore printed warnings because they think nothing will happen to them.
How many case tumblers have a three prong plug? Go ahead and keep playing with matches.
This is nothing more than arrogance of the highest order........][/QUOTE]
we really need a tinfoil hat smiley face!
There are warnings not to send text messages on your phone while driving.
There are warnings not to drink and drive.
There are warnings not to lube your ammo and excess bolt thrust.
And right now at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ there is a person giving out reloading information at this website. The problem is this person doesn't have a reloading press or even cast bullets.
At another website a psychic forum member told me I needed lasik eye surgery.
Sooner or later the drunk driver sending text messages on his phone is going to run head on into a brick wall.
Did any of you read about "NOT" filling your gas cans on the tailgate of trucks with plastic bed liners and the buildup of static electricity and the resulting fires.
Lets see these tumblers have rubber pads on the bottom of the tumbler and are not grounded and static electricity can build up in the tumbler bowl.
Have any of you ever refueled an aircraft, the aircraft and the refueling source are grounded to the same grounding point and the refueling source is grounded to the aircraft.
And then you have people who ignore printed warnings because they think nothing will happen to them.
How many case tumblers have a three prong plug? Go ahead and keep playing with matches.
This is nothing more than arrogance of the highest order........][/QUOTE]
we really need a tinfoil hat smiley face!
bigedp51
member
And how many of you so called experts are involved with product testing.
Lets see, how many of you smoke while pumping gas in your car.
From Accurate Shooter.com
Why You Should NOT Tumble Loaded Ammunition.
"While we are aware that some hand-loaders, particularly pistol shooters, tumble loaded ammo to remove residual lube or just to make their ammo nice and shiny, this is NOT a sensible procedure. RCBS and most ammo-makers specifically warn against tumbling live ammo in a vibratory tumbler. Hodgdon’s official policy is: “Completed ammo should not be tumbled. The powder will degrade and increase in burn speed.” (From Mike Daly, Customer Satisfaction Manager, Hodgdon/IMR.)"
"Tests run some years ago by a commercial entity did indicate that potentially dangerous changes in powder charge burning characteristics do take place after PROLONGED periods in either a vibratory or a tumbling cleaner.
The key word here is prolonged. Many manufacturers of ammunition do a final cleaning of their product either by tumbling or a vibratory process before boxing it for shipment. In no case is this allowed to exceed more than just a couple of minutes."
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/
"we really need a tinfoil hat smiley face!"
What we need are a few more people who do factual research before making uninformed statements in an open forum.
Now who do you want to believe, faceless strangers in a forum or the experts who do product testing on the ammunition you use.
Lets see, how many of you smoke while pumping gas in your car.
From Accurate Shooter.com
Why You Should NOT Tumble Loaded Ammunition.
"While we are aware that some hand-loaders, particularly pistol shooters, tumble loaded ammo to remove residual lube or just to make their ammo nice and shiny, this is NOT a sensible procedure. RCBS and most ammo-makers specifically warn against tumbling live ammo in a vibratory tumbler. Hodgdon’s official policy is: “Completed ammo should not be tumbled. The powder will degrade and increase in burn speed.” (From Mike Daly, Customer Satisfaction Manager, Hodgdon/IMR.)"
"Tests run some years ago by a commercial entity did indicate that potentially dangerous changes in powder charge burning characteristics do take place after PROLONGED periods in either a vibratory or a tumbling cleaner.
The key word here is prolonged. Many manufacturers of ammunition do a final cleaning of their product either by tumbling or a vibratory process before boxing it for shipment. In no case is this allowed to exceed more than just a couple of minutes."
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/09/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/
"we really need a tinfoil hat smiley face!"
What we need are a few more people who do factual research before making uninformed statements in an open forum.
Now who do you want to believe, faceless strangers in a forum or the experts who do product testing on the ammunition you use.
RhinoDefense
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2010
- Messages
- 883
Newsflash! The major ammunition manufacturers tumble live ammunition. You are NOT going to change the burn of the powder in any way by tumbling in a vibratory tumbler. Ever. It simply doesn't work like that.
Ammunition goes through a much more violent handling during shipping across the country and even world and no issues arise from tumbling and jolting that occurs tens of thousands of times.
Ammunition goes through a much more violent handling during shipping across the country and even world and no issues arise from tumbling and jolting that occurs tens of thousands of times.
northark147
Member
If a little bouncing and shaking is going to make ammo unsafe, I can guarentee there is no safe ammo in many parts of the south. Why can I guarantee this? Ammo is delivered on trucks, There are many roads down south that are so rough that 80,000 lb trucks doing the speed limit or less with air suspension to get air born every so many feet. These impacts are enough to break boxes and pallets, shake storage compartments open, shake everything out of storage compartments, break up ramen noodles stored in the truck so forth and so on, you get the idea. The vibration and bashing these trucks would give ammo or anything else is much worse than anything a tumbler could dream up.
JohnM
Member
99.9% of all safety warnings seen on everything today is legalese CYA speak.
I worked in dangerous surroundings all my life and saw safety warnings and requirements reach amazing levels of absurdity.
Until someone can come up with something more than company XYZ says "tumbling loaded ammunition is dangerous" it should be treated as hearsay.
Lets see some documented reports of all these so called "studies"
I worked in dangerous surroundings all my life and saw safety warnings and requirements reach amazing levels of absurdity.
Until someone can come up with something more than company XYZ says "tumbling loaded ammunition is dangerous" it should be treated as hearsay.
Lets see some documented reports of all these so called "studies"
I had been talking to Ammunition Specialists and to Active Duty. Ammunition that has been bumped around in vehicles is replaced, apparently on a schedule, because the stuff is either inconsistent, or unreliable. I forget which I heard.
I am of the opinion that tumbling will degrade the outside of powder. I cannot see how it cannot. The powder is tumbling just like your media. The outside of my media gets ground down, because the amount of dust in my media always goes up in time. I don't see a reason why this won't happen to powder granules.
How much time and what the cut off, I don't know.
Mike1234567
member
Yeah, let's please keep it civil, folks. Many a thread of late took a tumble and was subsequently blown up by a mod. We should all just relax and take a powder.
Many a thread of late took a tumble and was subsequently blown up by a mod. We should all just relax and take a powder. quartermaster
Member
tumbling loaded ammo
I always tumble my rifle brass or ultrasonically clean them after all the prep is done and just prior to loading. I always felt that there was too much effort put forth into wiping and that it never would quite get all the lube off anyway. I like my ammo to look good when I'm finished. Eventually it gets dull anyhow, but when I box it up iti is nice and shiny.
I use a Dillon press for pistols and even though the dies are carbide, I use the Hornady spray lube which isn't supposed to contaminate primers or powder on the all brass prior to loading. I guess it feel that it is easier on the dies. Most of my friends tell me it's a waste of time, but to me reloading is a labor of love. I have tried wiping that stuff off and it is a futile task, so I elected to try the easier method of tumbling. I have had my RCBS sidewinder and 2 Lyman tumblers going at the same time many times. I was concerned also the first time I did it, especially with the sidewinder as it is alot more aggressive than the tumblers. I usually tumble them for around 8 hours and have never had a problem. At this point in time, I don't worry about doing it at all. My only problem that I encounter is the media gets filthy pretty fast and has to get dicarded more often than I'd like.
I would say to go for it Mike. The tediuous hand work that we all used to do when reloading, such as wiping cases, chamfering and deburring by hand, and uniforming primer pockets has all but been eliminated with all the new electronic gadgets. I say thank God for innovation.
I always tumble my rifle brass or ultrasonically clean them after all the prep is done and just prior to loading. I always felt that there was too much effort put forth into wiping and that it never would quite get all the lube off anyway. I like my ammo to look good when I'm finished. Eventually it gets dull anyhow, but when I box it up iti is nice and shiny.
I use a Dillon press for pistols and even though the dies are carbide, I use the Hornady spray lube which isn't supposed to contaminate primers or powder on the all brass prior to loading. I guess it feel that it is easier on the dies. Most of my friends tell me it's a waste of time, but to me reloading is a labor of love. I have tried wiping that stuff off and it is a futile task, so I elected to try the easier method of tumbling. I have had my RCBS sidewinder and 2 Lyman tumblers going at the same time many times. I was concerned also the first time I did it, especially with the sidewinder as it is alot more aggressive than the tumblers. I usually tumble them for around 8 hours and have never had a problem. At this point in time, I don't worry about doing it at all. My only problem that I encounter is the media gets filthy pretty fast and has to get dicarded more often than I'd like.
I would say to go for it Mike. The tediuous hand work that we all used to do when reloading, such as wiping cases, chamfering and deburring by hand, and uniforming primer pockets has all but been eliminated with all the new electronic gadgets. I say thank God for innovation.
bigedp51
member
How many of you were issued one of these.
snuffy
Member
Think!
THINK! use your brain for something else besides repeating myth, supposition and safety warnings based on some lawyer.
If you don't want to think, then stop reading right now. What is going to degrade powder INSIDE a brass casing while being tumbled? As RC said, it is similar to a plastic, pretty hard and dense. Then it is coated with graphite to make it flow better and dissipate static electricity. Graphite is used to lubricate things, it's very slippery.
Some say it's going to grind itself into dust! Umm, the inside of a brass casing is smooth. The powder itself is slippery, whats going to "grind" it up? Do you include some sort of abrasive in with your powder charge?
As for the scaredy pants supposition that a bullet tip will fire a primer while in a tumbler, again THINK, or maybe a better term would be "reason it out". The firing pin in a bolt action rifle has a heavily compressed spring that is released by the trigger sear. It needs to be heavily compressed to reduce lock time,(the amount of time from release by the sear to the ignition of the primer). The shorter the lock time, the more accurate the rifle. That firing pin is a sharp but rounded point under a lot of speed and pressure. It's also made of steel. Where in a tumbler does that condition exist?
Bullet tips are 1 lead, 2 copper, 3 plastic, and 4 copper plated steel. The plated steel is the only one with the necessary hardness to do the job of setting off a primer. BUT where is the force? Watch a tumbler with brass in it, it's rolling gently around from the bottom to the top then keeps making the cycle. Listen! Do you hear the cases clinking together? If you do, you have too many in there. A drum type of tumbler MAY have more case-to-case contact, but never enough to fire a primer.
I hear that common sense is dead, I thought no, I still have it but maybe it's dieing elsewhere. These discussions about tumbling live ammo always come down to two very opposed sides to the discussion. People with closed minds that don't bother to think or reason stay convinced they're right to not do it. Fine, but I will still remove lube from the .223 ammo that comes out of my D-650 by tumbling them for 20 minutes. Or to put a shine back on old ammo that's tarnished.
THINK! use your brain for something else besides repeating myth, supposition and safety warnings based on some lawyer.
If you don't want to think, then stop reading right now. What is going to degrade powder INSIDE a brass casing while being tumbled? As RC said, it is similar to a plastic, pretty hard and dense. Then it is coated with graphite to make it flow better and dissipate static electricity. Graphite is used to lubricate things, it's very slippery.
Some say it's going to grind itself into dust! Umm, the inside of a brass casing is smooth. The powder itself is slippery, whats going to "grind" it up? Do you include some sort of abrasive in with your powder charge?
As for the scaredy pants supposition that a bullet tip will fire a primer while in a tumbler, again THINK, or maybe a better term would be "reason it out". The firing pin in a bolt action rifle has a heavily compressed spring that is released by the trigger sear. It needs to be heavily compressed to reduce lock time,(the amount of time from release by the sear to the ignition of the primer). The shorter the lock time, the more accurate the rifle. That firing pin is a sharp but rounded point under a lot of speed and pressure. It's also made of steel. Where in a tumbler does that condition exist?
Bullet tips are 1 lead, 2 copper, 3 plastic, and 4 copper plated steel. The plated steel is the only one with the necessary hardness to do the job of setting off a primer. BUT where is the force? Watch a tumbler with brass in it, it's rolling gently around from the bottom to the top then keeps making the cycle. Listen! Do you hear the cases clinking together? If you do, you have too many in there. A drum type of tumbler MAY have more case-to-case contact, but never enough to fire a primer.
I hear that common sense is dead, I thought no, I still have it but maybe it's dieing elsewhere. These discussions about tumbling live ammo always come down to two very opposed sides to the discussion. People with closed minds that don't bother to think or reason stay convinced they're right to not do it. Fine, but I will still remove lube from the .223 ammo that comes out of my D-650 by tumbling them for 20 minutes. Or to put a shine back on old ammo that's tarnished.
JohnM
Member
So, what's the picture of an old powder thermometer for?
All they were for was knowing the temperature of the powder in large artillery using bagged charges.
It was needed for calculating fire control.
Doesn't have much relevance to reloading small arms ammunition.
All they were for was knowing the temperature of the powder in large artillery using bagged charges.
It was needed for calculating fire control.
Doesn't have much relevance to reloading small arms ammunition.
snuffy
Member
He's grasping at straws trying to support his extreme claims of safety.
It's a well known fact that the temperature of ammo has a direct relation to how much pressure a load will develop. Target ammo left out in the sun can become dangerous if it's near max, then gets too hot. Also, if left in a hot chamber too long.
That has nothing to do with tumbling ammo though!
bigedp51
member
"THINK about it" you got to be kidding, "NOT" one person here who advocates tumbling/vibrating ammunition has the test equipment to validate their claims.
Why would the Sierra reloading manual tell you not to tumble/vibrate ammunition when they only sell bullets. The reason is very simple because they have a testing laboratory and pressure measuring equipment.
I spent 38 years working at a military depot with the last 25 years as a Quality Control Inspector on military equipment. I do not tumble/vibrate my loaded ammunition because military ammunition is tested "BEFORE" it is shipped back to storage depots. If the ammunition fails testing requirements it is disposed of and sold as surplus, reclaimed or if the powder is badly degraded it is burned.
The majority of rifle powders have a deterrent coating on the "OUTSIDE" of each grain of powder to control the burning rate........................
And you people want to tumble/vibrate the powder and alter its burning rate, again "WHY" would a bullet manufacture tell you not to tumble/vibrate loaded ammunition when they do not manufacture or sell loaded ammunition.
"BUT" they do have test equipment to back up their claims.
And Inspectors carry thermometers to test and verify the temperature in ammo storage bunkers.
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