If New Handgun Caliber is Developed These Days... Is It Possible to be Adapted?

[Chindo18Z]

180gr @ 1000fps? that's 40s&w, and revolvers are already chambered for it. not so sure a 41 special would be worthwhile as a result.

True. And some revolvers are chambered in 10mm. And neither auto caliber has ever taken the revolver world by storm (610s & Tauri notwithstanding). How many .40 S&W revolvers are currently produced?

My point is that there is a "gap" in traditional center fire rimmed revolver cartridges at about .41 diameter.

.357 Mag / .38 Special; .44 Mag / .44 Special; .41 Mag / ???

.41 Magnum owners would welcome a .41 Special. That could lead to some makers (besides Taurus) possibly producing some mid sized .41 Special defensive revolvers with 3-4 inch barrels.

As well, folks with .41 Blackhawks would appreciate a readily available 200 grain / 1000 fps non-magnum load that could also feed lever carbines.

There are plenty of good factory hunting loads in .41 Magnum. About the only decent commercial low recoil load for self defense is the Winchester Silvertip (175 gr JHP @ 1250 fps). I'm unaware of any factory produced range practice load from the major ammo vendors (although Georgia Arms sells quality bulk factory reloads). There are no "value packs" in .41.

 

[Skribs]

I think there's 2 reasons why cartridges don't get accepted. The .45 GAP I agree - it doesn't seem to add much over a .45 ACP. It's just a slightly smaller cartridge, but for some reason, weapons designed for it have a smaller capacity. Case in point - Glock 37 has a 10-round capacity, Glock 21 has a 13-round capacity. If the benefit is a smaller round, why does it have a lower round count?

The other reason is lack of availability. The .50 GI actually fills a niche that I haven't seen otherwise filled - a controllable .50 caliber handgun round. However, only GI makes them, and you're limited to a $3k 1911 or a $600 conversion for a Glock (if you don't have the Glock, another bunch for the frame), and the ammo is in extremely short supply.

Where I think there is a niche is a PDW round designed around a heavier bullet, which would mimic the effects of a 6.8mm or 7.62mm round at 300-400 yards at 0-100 yards. Something designed for a 7.5-10" barrel, which will have maybe a bit more recoil - but also more power - than a 5.7. Something like a 7mm, 90-grain bullet with roughly the same as - or a little less - muzzle energy as a 5.56 out of a 14.5" barrel.

 

[CraigC]

180gr @ 1000fps? that's 40s&w, and revolvers are already chambered for it. not so sure a 41 special would be worthwhile as a result.

The .41Spl can propel a 215gr SWC at 1200fps in appropriate guns. Give me the .41Spl any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'd rather take a whoopin' than have to fool with moonclips.

 

[LibraPMC]

Do you think its possible for spec ops to already have optimum cartridge in use that is commercially unavailable? I'm sure gov labs are constantly developing new handgun rounds that keeps hi capacity while firing acceptable bore projectile at high velocity. Most rounds go through military use before becoming commercially available so this may be possible.

 

[LibraPMC]

repost

 

[Chindo18Z]

Do you think its possible for spec ops to already have optimum cartridge in use that is commercially unavailable?

Yes. But only on a very small scale of employment. A few dozen weapons using an exotic cartridge developed through internal R&D.

6.8mm SPC is an example.

I am aware of a few more. But honestly, since they rarely have application for general issue to the greater force, they exist only as oddities...employed in minuscule numbers of weapons. Nothing magic so far...just different...and usually designed to do a specific thing for a particular situation. A few special purpose handgun rounds come to mind.

More typically, new bullets are adopted for existing (and commercially available) cartridges. These do occasionally trickle out to the rest of the military and LEO/civilian market.

Black Hills Mk 262 77gr & Federal/ATK MK 318 MOD 0 62gr 5.56 loads are examples.

SOF use and secrecy aside...when something works truly well in combat...that fact inevitably becomes common knowledge. What works well is eventually adopted by both conventional forces and the civilian market. Sometimes with handgun cartridges, what works well in the LEO environment eventually gets adopted by segments of the military and the general civilian population. .40 S&W & .38/.357 are examples of this.

 

[CraigC]

Some observations. Firstly, this is the handgun forum so I'm not sure how relevant rifle cartridges should be to this discussion.

Secondly, there has been very little change to military cartridges over the last 50yrs. Think about it, the .38Spl is over 100yrs old and little of its success can be attributed to military use. The .45Colt is almost 140yrs old and none of its commercial success for the last hundred years can be attributed to its military use. For handguns, that really just leaves the 9mm and .45ACP. Both of which are 100yrs old. No news on this front since the US military adopted the 9mm in the 1980's.

In the last 100yrs but especially in the last 50yrs there has been A LOT of consolidation and much less experimentation/change in small arms ammunition than there was prior to 1900. So I have to reject the notion that a new cartridge must come from the military.

 

[just for fun]

Gun rags have been telling about the fall of the 41 Mag since the late 70's. Some must not have heard the news cuz it's still being sold! The 45 gap (for the most part) was/is a glock thing and that's enough for a pass. Got some range brass for one, but that is as far as I went.