If the AWB is renewed, how will you vote?

[Moparmike]

From my occasional glances at this thread, I can safely say that I am glad I put a certain antagonist on my Ignore List. I suggest that some of you do the same.


Sometimes, the trolls just arent worth it.

 

[Art Eatman]

From the ridiculous to the sublime to the bickerfest.

And so, once again, a cheery "Good night!" to the Bickersons.

, Art

 

[Art Eatman]

Reopened by request.

Puhleeze: Repetition does not create truth, nor does sincerity of belief...

, Art

 

[GeneC]

Then, what does?

 

[Publicola]

Truth is not created; it's discovered.

But trying to get things back on track.... arguments for or against are cool. Mainly I just want to know everyone's reasoning (well, not everyone - just the people who offer an opinion) on why they will or won't vote for Bush if he signs an AWB renewal.

 

[GeneC]

"Truth is not created; it's discovered."

Now, is that a truth or an opinion, 'cause I know it implies the "TRUTH" just exists( which implies a SUPREME BEING that expounds thruth) and it's just a matter of 'discovering it, but is it that simple? Another person said truth was created and that implies that "TRUTH" IS created, but NOT by sincerety of belief (but if it IS created, then by what process?), but you say it isn't , so was what they said an opinion or what? Btw, so, you're not interested in the truth, you said you just want opinions, but what are opinions based on, or does that not matter either?

 

[fix]

...again.

 

[itgoesboom]

Gene,

What does that have to do with anything??

If you want to argue something, lets argue the topic.

If not, then back under the bridge with you.

I.G.B.

 

[GeneC]

Everything anyone says is supposed to be the truth or based in the truth, but as this thread shows, the 'truth' can be just about anything. Now, two people have given made statements (based on THEIR truth) about truth. One says truth is created, but not by sincerity of belief and one says truth is not created, but discovered. This thread was closed, then re-opened and I believe that we need to determine what truth is , due to the person who has the power to close or open threads said that repitition nor sincerity in belief creates the truth, so I think a fair question is what I asked, "Then, what does?"

IGB, I take offense to your post. I don't WANT to argue, while maybe you do. I want to discuss, but that seems to be a problem , so I think some things need to be clarified. Just 'cause you don't see the connection, doesn't give you the right to break THR rules and make a personal attack.

 

[Publicola]

GeneC,

If you wish to argue the philosophical origins of Truth then I'll be happy to oblige. Just not here. Find a suitable forum for such a discussion & then tell me where it is & I'll jump right in. Perhaps you shoudl create a thread int he General Discussion or the Roundtable forums here?

The topic we're trying to discuss here is whether or not a person will vote for Bush if he signs an AWB renewal. I'm not saying that we cannot deviate fromt hat question one iota, but staying in the ballpark would be preferable.

So if you wouldn't mind please stick to the subject of why you would or wouldn't vote for Bush if he signs an AWB renewal.

 

[itgoesboom]

GeneC

Just 'cause you don't see the connection, doesn't give you the right to break THR rules and make a personal attack.

Once again you show your hypocricy.

Look back a page or two, and you will find this little quote, by you.

we'd leave your self-centered butt on the trail somewhere, 'cause you just don't get it.

So, as far as I can see, you made a personal attack on me (which I as able to disprove, and put back on you ((BTW, you never responded to that either))) prior to me calling you a troll.

So you once again prove that you are a hypocrit. Nice work.

I.G.B.

 

[GeneC]

So, I tell you what I KNOW that me and the rest of the guys in my patrol squad would do to a self centered , "personal freedom, personal comfort, it's all about what I want." person, you somehow equate that with you calling me a troll ( and now a hypocrit) as being on equal ground. Well , let me show you the difference between me and you. See, I understand where you're coming from. You took what I said( about leaving you on the side of the trail ) as a personal attack, which it wasn't and I'm gonna guess you've never been in a situtation that I'm refering to (the squad patrol), 'cause if you ever was, for one , you'd know that a squad never gets the luxury of personal freedom, they have to be prepared to sacrifice EVERYTHING, even their life , for the other guys in the squad and as long as every man has that attitude, we won't leave them behind, but an ***** starts talking or acting like his life or even his 'personal freedom' are more important than the rest of the guys , or the mission, we'd leave them there and split his gear, but then if you ever was in a squad , you probably know that. Btw, thousands of soldiers over there are dealing with this on a daily basis, so you can sit there and call me names. So you see, my 'truth' is different than your 'truth' and others' 'truth' , so it's something we need to get clear,imo.

 

[Moparmike]

This really isnt going anywhere reguarding the AWB and people's votes.

 

[GeneC]

Well ,maybe it does MM, 'cause apparently, 68% are out of touch with the "truth" , which is that there's NO way this President is gonna sign the awb, but he won't even have to deal with it , 'cause Congress ain't even gonna pass it, but the mission this Administration is on is FAR more important than the awb, so the MOST this poll shows is that 68%'d cut off their noses to spite their faces, which seems pretty foolish to me. A rational person who had a grasp of the real situation'd say, "Man, I'd be pissed if he signed , but he's the only one we got that can win this war, so I'm gonna vote for him and then let him know how much he sucks for signing the awb and then once the war is won, we can elect someone else.", or something like that, but 68% is saying , "Oh, he signed the awb , so I'm gonna vote for kerry, who'll cut back on the military, hand America over to the UN, expand the awb to include handguns and invite terrorist leaders to the White House for dinner and try to schmooze them."

 

[Moparmike]

Very few who vote against Bush will vote for Kerry. A 3rd party that represents the views of that voter would be more likely.


And protecting the civil liberties of all US Citizens is the #1 job of all POTUSes. No matter what they actually did. Has it occured to you that the pro-AWB stance of GWB might not be the only reason that someone would not vote for him? It is one of many reasons why I will most likely not vote for him.

But anything but the lesser of two evils is a sin to you, so I will leave you to your soon to be re-locked flame war.

 

[itgoesboom]

Gene,

You crack me up.

First of all, this isn't a squad situation. This is America, where we are all guaranteed certain personal freedoms by a certain famous document. Maybe you have heard of it, its the constitution.

Second of all, if you don't believe in personal freedoms, than what were you willing to fight for? The whole reason why I enlisted in the Army as soon as I turned 18 was because I felt the need to defend my country, and to fight for the personal and collective freedoms that we were guaranteed.

Now, you are right, I was never in a squad situation. I blew out my knees just before basic. Had I been able to walk more than 100ft without support, I would still be in the military, because that is what I had wanted to do with my life. Sometimes things don't go your way, so you adapt.

Back to the topic.

Once again, you made a comment about me being self centered, because I believe that Americans have certain rights. I never insinuated that it was all about me.

However, you did, when you came in the attitude that the AWB never infringed upon anyone who was old enough to purchase ahead of time, and screw those that were too young. You got yours, who cares about us. I want all Americans to have those rights. You don't care who has the rights, as long as you got yours. Who is self centered again?

Gene, that is what makes you a hypocrit, and that is why others called you an elitist, and that is why you are making your way onto many peoples ignore list.

Think about what you are saying.

You have made this all about you, and why the law isn't an infringment because YOU are still able to own assault rifles. That is how you seem to define infringment.

I don't quite get it. I know that when I have kids, I want them to have the same rights I have had, no less. Therefore, one of the main reasons I bought and "evil black rifle" and 50 hi-cap magazines, is so that my kids will always have one, even if they are unable to purchase one due to some stupid law that gets passed.

I can't prevent unconstitutional laws from being passed, but I can do what I can do, and that is pass my rifle down to my son or daughter, so that they can enjoy the same freedom that I did. Hopefully, they will enjoy even more freedom than myself.

I.G.B.

 

[GeneC]

IGB, I'd buy the rhetoric of elistism, but you same folks that call me elitist( 'cause I said that the awb didn't effect those who got AR before the ban, which is just a plain fact)( btw, I NEVER said srew everyone else, I said it was too bad they were born late), are the same folks that say screw illegal aliens, we're here and they're not , screw them, kick 'em out and then pull our troops out of every Country and keep them here, they're saying screw the the world. Those are the TRUE elitists and have the gall to call me a hypocrit. As far as infringement, as the other thread shows, everyone has different views about that too, so what you call infringement, I call sacrifice for the greater good.

 

[1911Tuner]

Truths and 7.62s

Fascinating thread. Amazing what lengths..um...never mind.

I read a post on a forum somewhere that stated that truth,
like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. And
here all this time I didn't have a clue that Slick Willie Klinton
would ever post on a gun forum.

And...7.62 Nato, doesn't =.300...It's .308...So is 30-06 and
.300 Winmag, and .300 Weatherby, and the list goes on.
if you wanna get real picky, the bullet diameters can vary from
.3075 to .3082...but that's splittin' hairs. .308 will do, for all practical purposes.

7.62X39 = .310-311, depending on who makes the bullets,
as does .303 Enfield ammo...Hard to tell the players without a program sometimes...I've miked some old British WW2-era bullets at .312
inch...

8mm Mauser is actually 7.92, and can be either .318 or .323...depending...and though the larger one will probably chamber in a rifle designed to take the smaller bullet, firing it would be an interesting experience, guaranteed.

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[Art Eatman]

And this is now irrevocably gone to the nether regions.