I'm Too Confused?

[P5 Guy]

I have tried reloading for full powered 357MAG before, but was not happy with the out come. So for the past few years I've stuck with lower power lead 158gr loads using 231.
Well I want to try again to make up some more powerful 357MAG.
I went and got two different 125gr jacketed bullets from the store. Sierra #8310 JSP and Hornady #35710 HP-XTP. And I dutifully went and looked up loads in my Sierra and Hornady manuals. Also my Lyman #49 manual. I have some 2400 and primers of both power levels Standard and Magnum by the Winchester corporation.

Sierra spell out a load that they tested in a Colt MkIII Trooper. Starline brass CCI550 and from 16.2gr to 19.0gr of 2400. I'm not in possession of either that brass or primers.
I have seen many posts on here that Magnum primers are not needed.
As for the Hornady the confusion starts compounding.Hornady uses Frontier brass which I have some once fired. They also did their testing with Winchester's Magnum primers. Starting at 13.9gr of 2400 running up to 16.9gr. (the highest is the lowest almost for the Sierra) in a Colt Python with a 8" barrel.
To further confuse my efforts I went to the Lyman's #49 and found that Federal Brass was used with CCI550 starting at 13gr and running up to the max of 17.7gr of 2400.

My past experiment with 357MAG was years ago and with heavier 158 Nosler and H110. I forget what powder charge but all had very flat primers, so I quit.

Now before I had read so much I got in this wind up I loaded some Federal brass with standard primers 17.0gr of 2400 to push the Sierra 125s And a few Speer brass at 17.5 2400 same primers and bullets. I want to try these in my S&W686.

Thanks for putting up with my long winded story.

Are the above reloads too hot? Did I mess up with the standard primers? Is there that big a difference in the two manufacturers bullets? Do I read too much?
:banghead:
Thanks for helping. P5

 

[243winxb]

To HOT for a Starting Load

The Alliant Powder guide i am looking at list 2400-17.5gr Maximum -125gr speer gdhp-cci500 Your starting out at maximum. Not good IMO. Use a starting load & work up. Maybe 15.5gr to start??

 

[kingmt]

Your reading to much. They aren't telling you what to use but what they did.

When I started loading I would hot rod my handguns but I started enjoying them more when I backed off.

 

[rehorne]

WOW !! Back off there son!! 13.5 to 14.2 is all I dare to use in my 19, 686 and 28 with 2400 and a 158 gr SWC. Could go some what higher but the muzzle blast and recoil gets unpleasant. Also with the 125 gr and the high velocities you risk flame cutting to the top strap and possible splitting of the forcing cone. Not worth the risk to me.

 

[rcmodel]

Other then starting with near max loads in the first place, which was a mistake.
Your loads are probably fine.

Mag primers are not recommeded for 2400 powder.
Best results will generally be had with Standard primers.

Ball powder like H110/W296 requires Mag primers, especially in very cold weather.

You are not going to split the forcing cone on a S&W686.

rc

 

[P5 Guy]

Using Sierra's loading data in the Star line brass with CCI550 they start with a 16.2 gr load of 2400.
Using the same bullet in Federal and Speer brass with a Winchester standard primer I used 17.0gr and 17.5gr of 2400.
Sierra has their max load 19.0gr 0f 2400
I thought I was using the lower end of the scale according to the bullet makers recommendation?

 

[rcmodel]

I thought you said you were using Seirra & Hornady bullets.

The XTP is a different shape then the Sierra and likely has a longer bearing surface.

rc

 

[murf]

that would be the middle of the scale according to sierra. please use the hornady manual when loading up the xtps. those bullets always take less powder for the same velocities.

also, suggest you switch to a faster powder for the 125 gn bullets. maybe hs-6, or bluedot (hs-6 needs a magnum primer, bluedot does not). fwiw

murf

 

[P5 Guy]

Sorry, I have only loaded the Sierra 125gr JSP
I was going to try the HP-XTP Hornady next when I read the much lower powder charges I got concerned. Both bullets side by side do not look all that different.

 

[Revolver218]

You mentioned W 231, the powder I use for both .38 and .357. According to the Hodgdon data a 125 grain Hornady XTP should use between 7.3 and 8.5 gr. of 231. I use 7.5 gr with CCI small pistol primers and it works fine, easy to shoot and accurate. If I wanted more power I'd move up but why be hard on the gun or myself, the 7.5 works fine. And for cc in .357 I use factory ammo.

 

[gamestalker]

My experience with full house magnum lods is some what limited, in that, I only load full house using H110 and 296, and sometimes 2400.

RC pretty much hit the nail on the head, work up from the lower end of the data and don't use a magnum primer.

I would like to add, make sure your brass is all trimmed to the same length. The little extra time will make seating & crimping in the same step a breeze. Also, it is advisable to place a firm crimp on the bullets to prevent them from jumping out of the mouths. A taper crimp will work fine if you place it just over the leading edge of the canelure, I do it all the time with great results.

 

[P5 Guy]

Thanks Gamestalker, I have trimmed the brass, and all rounds were seated and then crimped to an overall length of 1.580 to +0.005.

 

[Cosmoline]

Don't forget that although the .357 is an incredibly common round, each revolver is still a little different. The differences between makers and models can be even more pronounced. A load that's dead on in a Speed Six may be cruddy in a Smith & Wesson Model 19. It's just like any other reloading. You make up batches of different weight bullets and various charge levels (never starting at or near max, as noted) and fire from a rest for effect. Eventually you'll find rounds that work best for a particular wheelgun, and with luck they'll work well with similar revolvers.

As far as what brand of primers, what brand of brass, how well trimmed it is, etc etc. I have found these issues to be SECONDARY or TERTIARY to the main concerns of matching bullet, barrel, chamber and powder. Once you have your best loads from the initial testing, THEN you can start tweaking the lesser details to see what's optimal, though honestly unless you're out to win matches or shoot past 25 yards it's probably not going to be significant enough to matter.

 

[P5 Guy]

I just want to come up with a practice load that runs about the same to what I would use for SD/HD.
I lean to heavier bullets but these were there on the shelf and I figured to give them a try. I have been using my powder puff 158 LSWC loads and wanted to try some jacked bullets.
I see that some think that 2400 is too slow, for the barrel length (2.5") or is that just in general for the 125gr bullets?
140 to 158 will be next if this doesn't work out like I want.
Thanks for reading and responding P5

 

[rcmodel]

2400 is not too slow, and it will give higher velocity then anything else except H110/W296/N110 and a few other slower powders.

However, barrel length doesn't matter.

Whatever gives the hiighest velocity in a long barrel will do the same in a short barrel.

You could cut down on muzzle flash & blast somewhat in a short barrel with a medium burn rate powder like Unique, AA #5, Power Pistol, etc.
But the velocity will be a little less too.

rc

 

[Eb1]

I have found that primers account for a lot of my accuracy issues. Especially in rifles. I have loaded batches with the same brass, powder weight and bullet in each of my guns, but using different primers.
The results were very distinct. Even though everything was the exact same except the primers. I had groups go from under an inch to over 4 inches. The only component that wasn't the same was the brand of primer. The primer can make or break your load. They really do make a difference. I would not have ever thought they made such a difference if I had not taken the time to test this theory. You'd be surprised how much each brand changes the load.

 

[ljnowell]

2400 is a fantastic choice! I load 125gr JHPs ovewr 16.3gr and 158gr swc(missouri bullet 357 action) over 14.5gr.

 

[P5 Guy]

Hopefully I can get out to the pistol club and try the couple of dozen I made up. It seems like this time of the year has the time speeding past.

 

[P5 Guy]

Finally Got To The Range

And the 17 and 17.5 grains of 2400 worked fine now the work on the XTP bullets. I'll be looking in the Hornady manual for loads.
Thanks to all, P5