Improving Accuracy of .223 Loads?

[matt33]

Quote:
mc223

My tried and true load for the 69 is 25.3g Varget in a LC case with a Rem 7-1/2 or Fed 205 with a 1 in 9 twist.

+1, although I use CCI BR4 primers
I have a Colt MT6721 (1:9" HBAR) and consistently get under an inch with this load. It was the most accurate load I had tried until Saturday when I shot my first .5" group ever. This load was 27.0 grains of Varget w/ a 60 gr Hornady V-max.

As a side note, Black Hills 52 gr HP's have shot close to or under an inch in every AR I've tried. I've never shot them through a 1:7" though.

 

[Bullet]

Grump

Please let us know how this turns out. You might try some of the suggestions given here. Hope you get your rifle to shoot as good as you would like.

 

[ocabj]

My current loads in a 1 in 7" 20" White Oak are:

[200/300]
Nosler Custom Competition 77gr
Alliant RL15 24.0gr
CCI BR4
LC Brass

[200/300]
Sierra Match King 77gr
Alliant RL15 24.2/24.3gr
CCI BR4
LC Brass

[600]
Sierra Match King 80gr
Alliant RL15 24.0gr
CCI BR4
Lapua Match Brass

 

[Grump]

Looks like it's the barrel. Fired some Fed GMM at 100 yards, and the dispersion was about 4 inches. Even taking out what *might* have been the flyer caused by my son's leaving a bit too much oil in the bore, it's still 3 inches.

The .308 fired just beforehand had one flyer low and right, first shot, and the next 4 in about 3/4-inch.

Both iron sight guns, both fired off of bags (front and rear), both with consistent cheek pressure and no fore-end pull like with a tight sling, and both with identical atmospherics at play--a 6:00 tailwind.

 

[Khornet]

What I did

just for grins was to uniform the primer pockets, ream the flash holes, and turn the necks on some LC (XM193) once-fired brass--fired the first time in my rifle.

I used 2230, 20.9 gr, a Hornady 68 gr match bullet, and Remington small rifle primers. Charges were weighed, because I was only making 20 rds.

Using iron sights, and my eyes are getting quite weak so that I have trouble seeing the bull at 100 yds, I got the attached group for 10 rds, and then the same with the next ten. This is a 50% group size reduction from my usual handloads. Rifle is a DPMS CMP rifle wit a 20" 1:8 stainless barrel.

 

[snuffy]

irons?

Both iron sight guns, both fired off of bags (front and rear), both with consistent cheek pressure and no fore-end pull like with a tight sling, and both with identical atmospherics at play--a 6:00 tailwind.

It's been years since I tried iron sights. My vision is so bad that I can't see both sights AND the target! If I were to try irons on my AR, I'd expect to see groups over 4" @100 yds. I KNOW for a fact that rifle is capable of sub 1" groups, with an 18 power scope.

If you can shoot better than that, then cudos to you, you're probably much younger than me, with good vision. That damn astigmatism,(or however it's spelled), is the culprit.

 

[GPWEAPON]

I'd have to agree with you grump I have a hbar with a float tube
and it sucks for accuracy even with a scope. I shot High power and I
know what a good ar can do. I went thru the same crap. A good
upper with an acuwedge will change alot.

If you have an accurate colt your a lucky one indeed.

 

[dcloco]

I am sure that I am in the minority, but I do not like Varget. Chronograph shows it is not consistent as other powders as well.

Try H4895 and work the load up. I use Nosler or Sierra 69 gr HPBT, Fed 205M primers, 25.0 grains of H4895, just about any case, and get AWESOME groups, at 3000 fps out of a 26" barrel.

Yes, I am using a bolt gun, but this load works in AR's as well.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Before you trash the barrel ($200+), try another set of loading dies. (<$25.00)

You may be getting a bit of run-out on your loaded ammo... This will cause the problems you're having.

To check for run-out without about a $100 set up....
place the loaded ammo on a flat smooth surface and see if the tip of the bullet "wobbles" or wiggles in a circle as the rounds are rolled.

I've had several dies through the years that were "bad". The manufactures always readily replaced them.
Either the sizer die is not true, or you're seating the bullet out of line.

The Bench Rest dies cost a lot more because they receive a lot more attention to detail in manufacturing. You really probably don't need a set of bench rest dies, but you DO need a GOOD set.

 

[wcwhitey]

I have a 1:9 twist barrel and use lighter bullets than you but I did learn a neat trick for shooting shorter distances, 100 yds or less. I was told then tried and proved it that traditional flat based bullets work best. The Boat Tails are superior at longer distances but take more distance to settle than flat based. My specific test was Sierra 52 Grain Matchingking HPBT vs the 53 Grain HP. This change alone was worth almost 1/2" at 100 yards. It was extremely evident at a 50 yd range I visit on occassion. This knowledge and a free float tube turned my little 16" DPMS Low Pro Classic into a tack driver.

 

[30Cal]

Looks like it's the barrel.

I'm thinking you are correct. You might get better results with a float tube, but I doubt it'll get you where you want to go.

Ty

 

[DBR]

Grump:
Have you checked to make sure the barrel nut is correctly torqued?

 

[BoomerTG1]

I'm the other shooter with that rifle. We just checked the throat, and a Nosler 77-gr HPBT Match bullet hits the rifling/leade at 2.5" OAL.

How bad for our accuracy is it for the bullets to be .25" off the lands?

 

[dcloco]

I only read your thread, but I can just about guarantee that your barrel is copper fouled.

Look in the muzzle (unloaded please) and if there is ANY copper coloring on the lands, you need to clean that barrel. If copper is present, it will be TOUGH to get out.

Take the two seconds and look...your frustrations might be right there.

 

[Sunray]

Change powders. Your rifle doesn't like the Varget.

 

[NuJudge]

Go-to loads, and concentrate on consistent head position

I have not shot any Colt barrels, but I have a lot of experience with different twist AR barrels. I have two loads that have worked in 1:8, and 1:7 twist barrels (the 52gr load also works in a 1:9 barrel that refuses to shoot anything else):

52gr bullet (any make, but I usually use Sierra), 26.5 gr 748, CCI primer, and LC or Winchester case.

69gr SMK, 24.3gr IMR 4895, Winchester primer, Winchester case

The problems I had with groups from the AR were largely related to head positioning. I had great trouble with groups when transitioning to the AR from the Garand. Consistent head positioning is much more difficult on the AR. Being blessed with long arms and a long neck, I use the left lobe of the charging handle placed in my right nostril. If you can't reach that, get a shorter A1 stock and try that.

CDD

 

[Grump]

Will report on the next, and probably final, round of testing with this rifle.

Head position and cheek pressure are consistent. I used to shoot collegiate level smallbore, so this is not new to me.

Bore is unlikely to be heavily fouled. Sweet's patches are coming through with hardly any green by the end of cleaning sessions.

Checked the barrel nut just for looseness. No wobbles there.

Checked FS tower and RS and anything else that could be loose or wiggly. Nothing is loose.

Put in an accu-wedge, too.

Nothing is working, not even GMM.

 

[DBR]

The barrel nut can cause accuracy problem way before it wobbles. The only way to know for sure is to remove the gas tube and re-torque the nut. Min torque is 35 ft lb max is 85 ft lb. You should be able align the nut with the gas tube hole in the receiver within this range.

If you can find a gunsmith or hobbyist who has the tools it only takes about 20 min to do this.

 

[byf43]

Grump,

Before giving up, please try this load.

23.0 gr. H-335
Winchester or Federal Brass, trimmed to 1.750" (LIGHTLY de-burr casemouth!)
Federal 205 or 205M primer
Sierra 69 gr. BTHP MatchKing bullet

Seat the bullet so that it JUST fits your magazine(s).


This load consistently shoots 3 shots (@ 100 yds.) into a group that can be covered by a dime, off of sandbags, in my Colt AR-HBAR w/1:7 twist barrel.
It also shoots really well in a friend's POST-ban AR Colt Sporter Match (HBAR).

My AR also likes the American Eagle 55 gr. FMJBT loads, too, at 100 yds. I don't shoot many of these, though.


Give the barrel a good cleaning with Kano-Kroil and then follow up with Hoppe's #9 or Hoppe's Copper Solvent.

Push some Kroil into the barrel on a patch and get the barrel really wet, inside.
Let it sit for about 15 to 30 minutes before starting to clean.
You'll be surprised how much gunk comes out with Kroil.








Keith

 

[dcloco]

Let your favorite copper remover sit in the barrel for an hour...then see if the patch is green.

 

[FM12]

Try the lighter, flat base bullet for ranges up to 200 yards. In shorter ranges, the heavier bullets do not stabilize. Ilove H335 in the .223 caliber, and have shot small groups with a bushmaster I had using H335 and 50-55 grain bullets. Dont shoot 55 gr FMJ with cannelure for group size. Try Sierra 52 or 53 to eliminate the bullet factor.

For ALL AR shooters, get a a copy of Glen Zediker's book "the Competetive AR, The Mouse that Roared" or some such title. About 100 pages on reloading alone. If you shoot an AR, you NEED this book.

 

[Ken C]

Have you tried a different set of dies ? If the rifle shoots OK with various flavors of factory ammo and, with all you have tried, not with handloads, it may not be the rifle. Seems to me, logically, something is amiss with the dies or the die setup. Sounds like you know what you are doing regarding setup, so, by elimination, something is probably wrong with the die(s).

 

[Grump]

Boy, I'm getting grumpy now...

If the rifle shoots OK with various flavors of factory ammo and, with all you have tried, not with handloads, it may not be the rifle.

No. Read the thread. See Posts no. 29 and 42.

This, by the way, has been a problem with loads using not just Varget, but 4064, H335, and AA2230, and match bullets of 52 gr (flatbase and BT), 55-gr (NOT just FMJBT, but Sierra SPBTs), 53 gr, 69 gr and 77 gr. Makers have been Sierra, Hornady, Nosler and Speer.

Current question is whether this dismal performance with ALL ammos, including Federal Gold Medal Match ("GMM") and [not named until now] HSM 69-gr match out of Montana, is likely to be purely caused by .24 inch bullet jump to the lands.

Anyone??

Beuhler??

 

[Bullet]

I doubt the jump to the lands is the problem, but you could try seating longer and single feed and find out.

I still believe that the Colts just aren’t match grade. While this is not to say that some might shoot real good while others don’t. Kind of like the luck of the draw. A better trigger might help.

 

[Steel Talon]

Hello Grump,,

Sounds like its time to try some Blue Wonder bore cleaner. It'll will take the copper fouling out like their is no tomorrow Easy to use, cheap. Also is your crown of the barrel nicked/marred etc. And, have you scoped the bore yet?

Peace
ST~