Improving Reliabilty

[AFDavis11]

Let's say I buy an autoloader. And, I like it a whole lot. But, it's not as reliable as I might like. What would you do, generically, to an auto to make it more reliable?

If there are things you do only to a specific model, let me know that too.

And spring replacement. This worries me a little. Let's say I'm carrying an auto and I should replace the spring at some unknown round count in the future. I shoot my auto regularly. How do I trust it? How do I know the springs don't need to be changed, now? If I'm relying on the gun, I want it to be reliable, but how do I know the springs aren't in need of replacement?

I did a search, and didn't see a comprehensive list of reliabilty tuning suggestions.

I follow that lots of people don't carry an unreliable gun, but what, if anything, do you try before you give up?

Let's also assume I've fired 500 rounds in the gun to "break it in".

Thanks in advance for replies.

 

[Owen]

well, its its unreliable, first step would be to return it to the mfg under warranty.

Second step would be diagnosis: What is the gun failing to do?

The kind of failure the gun is experiencing is necessary to get pointed down the right path.

As far as springs go, depending on what handgun it is, the only likely springs to change are the recoil spring, the extractor spring and the mainspring/striker spring, and if the weapon only has 500 rounds on it, you have a long way to go before you start worrying about that. IME, the 5000 rounds recommendation is extremely conservative. The Glock 17 I shoot USPSA with has well over 20k rounds on it. I haven't changed any springs, and it is still stone-cold reliable. I am assuming that this pistol is mid-range quality wise. All bets are off on the bottom tier manufacturers,that may not be taking the time to actually design the springs with service life in mind

 

[tarosean]

It really depends on the gun.

Size matters when it comes to springs, smaller guns wear out their recoil springs at a much faster rate than their full sized brethren.

 

[Coyote3855]

Hard to say "generically" because different autoloaders may have different issues. If a new auto isn't reliable after 200-300 rounds, it needs a trip back the manufacturer. When I obtain a used auto, I usually replace the basic springs - recoil, firing pin, hammer. Those springs are replaced after 1000-1500 rounds. I polish the feed ramp. Autos depend on good magazines, so that can be an issue. If I have reliability issues, I try a new magazine. Some ammo can contribute to unreliability. My 1968 Hi Power chokes on certain brands but feeds others without a hitch.

 

[BSA1]

well, its its unreliable, first step would be to return it to the mfg under warranty.

Second step would be diagnosis: What is the gun failing to do?

I disagree slighty with Owen as I think he has the steps reversed.

Without knowing what problems you are referring to the usual first suspect with feeding issues is the magazine. Trying different magazines will quickly identify if that is the case.

If you have not done so try different ammunition.

The good news is the quality of most handguns is very high and manufacturers have good warranty polices.

As for springs I tend to agree with OWEN. The only spring that routinely needs to be changed is the recoil spring and the 5,000 round count seems small. The only gun I have changed all the springs on is a Ruger P-89 that I brought used with unknown round count. It started giving me several problems including light firing pin strikes and feeding/ejection issues. I replaced all of the springs with Wolff springs and resolved the issues.

The only springs I do replace regularly are in the magazines from unknown manufacturers, especially the cheaper ones. Wolff offers a lot of 5 & 10% extra power springs for magazines. If the spring feels a little light when I am loading it or I have feeding issues with it most of the time a Wolff extra power spring will solve the problem.

 

[jmr40]

Let's also assume I've fired 500 rounds in the gun to "break it in".

No one should have to spend $150-$300 for ammo to break in a gun. That is 25%-50% the cost of some perfectly reliable guns. For me, it either works out of the box, or it is gone. I've returned guns to the factory, but once I reach that point I have lost all confidence in that gun. They have all been sold after they were returned to me. I wouldn't knowingly sell a defective gun to someone without disclosing the problem. But once I get it back from the manufacturer, and they say it works, I can sleep at night selling it to someone else.

I've found I lose less money taking a loss on selling a gun than by throwing money at a gunsmith who might, or might not get it working. Same thing with constantly taking up my time and buying gas for repeated trips to UPS for returning unreliable guns.

Unless that gun was a family heirloom, it would have been back to the manufacturer after 25-50 rounds and sold as soon as it got back if it were mine.

 

[45_auto]

I shoot my auto regularly. How do I trust it? How do I know the springs don't need to be changed, now? If I'm relying on the gun, I want it to be reliable, but how do I know the springs aren't in need of replacement?

If you're worried about springs, change them now then change them all every year. It'll cost you what, $20 once a year? If you're shooting "regularly", for most people $20 once a year is nothing compared to the cost of the ammo you're using.

If the motor in your car is running at 1800 RPM at 60 MPH, then each valve spring is being compressed and released 15 times per second, or about 900 times per mile, or 54,000 times per hour. Do you also worry about your valve springs?

I personally change my recoil springs every 5 or 10 years (10,000 to 20,000 rounds through the gun) whenever I start feeling guilty.

 

[Drail]

Buy extra recoil and magazine springs and keep them handy. When you start to experience last round feed issues change the magazine springs. Recoil springs are generally good for 2 to 3 thous rounds. Wolff gunspring's website and Wilson Combat's website have information on spring rate recommendations and lifespan. It's more a matter of rounds through the gun than time.

 

[CWL]

Keep a log of your guns.

Keep track of how many rounds you shoot during your ownership as well as anything you do, malfunctions, parts replacements, etc.

If you really think modern autos are that unreliable, then keep spares of everything and change the springs out after "x" many rounds fired. This amount will depend on the gun, but I wouldn't begin to worry until at least 5000 rounds fired. (this is a low round count).

BUT it depends on the firearm. One worrisome pistol I own is my ParaOrdnance P-13. I have to religiously change mag springs after 1000 rounds if I want to have reliable cycling. Just something about that doublestack .45ACP mag that makes it not want to work. --OTOH ALL of my other M1911s (including my Wilson Combat double) have zero mag spring issues. So your miles will vary depending on the firearm & design.

The best way is to shoot it a lot and personally learn the nuances of your firearms.

 

[tuj]

points of reliability (in no particular order):

Magazine, and all components, including spring, follower, and feed lips.

feed ramp or barrel throating.

chamber design (tightness).

extractor design ('beefiness') and spring.

ejector profile and wear characteristics.

recoil spring.

ammo - must function at desired velocity and the bullet design and OAL must feed correctly.

If those parts are working and the trigger linkage is working and the positive safety linkages are working (all big ifs!), then the gun will fire and cycle the next round.

What this really means is that all part of the pistol are important to be working in their proper state, and in practice, simplicity of design tends to result in greater reliability, coupled with modern manufacturing techniques and tolerances.