IN-- Postal Worker Had Bomb-Making Materials

[Slugless]

The marijuana growing operation doesn't have to be in plain sight.

I imagine that some of you have seen/smelled the product and some of you have been around wild hemp.

It smells very strong. People have been busted because LEOs or even passerby smell the growing pot outside the house. (growing inside the garage for the case I read about).

Cop goes up to the house, the guy inside (whose nose is used to the smell like a dog owner's is to the smell of dog) opens the door, the cop smells the dope = probable cause.

 

[kludge]

Yes, CO = LEO, so doesn't that mean they need a warrant or is it as someone said, gunfire is probable cause for search?

I'm not by any means condoning what the suspect had alledgedly done, I'm just trying to understand whether or not I must legally consent to a search (vehicle, barn, garage, home, freezer, whatever) based on whether a CO heard gunfire and the presumption is made that I'm poaching.

 

[Jeff White]

Slugless said;

Cop goes up to the house, the guy inside (whose nose is used to the smell like a dog owner's is to the smell of dog) opens the door, the cop smells the dope = probable cause.

Not necessarily enough for a a search warrant. Depends on other court decisions in the circuit and the individual judge.

kludge said;

I'm not by any means condoning what the suspect had alledgedly done, I'm just trying to understand whether or not I must legally consent to a search (vehicle, barn, garage, home, freezer, whatever) based on whether a CO heard gunfire and the presumption is made that I'm poaching.

Depends on the law where you live. In Illinois a Conservation Officer can inspect all kinds of things without a warrant. I'd check on the law where you live. There are all kinds of laws that allow various government officials to inspect private property without a warrant. In those cases, the dwelling is usually protected but barns, outbuildings and such are open to inspections.

In most states Conservation Officers have much more power then ordinary peace officers when it comes to searches.

However if evidence of another crime is uncovered while the Conservation Officer is checking the dates on the duck in your deep freeze and a separate warrant is not secured for the other evidence it will likely be inadmissible because the law doesn't empower the Conservation Officer to look for evidence of any other violation without a warrant. That's why when evidence of another crime is discovered, the search is stopped and a warrant is applied for that covers the other crime.

For example, if I am in your garage with a warrant looking for a stolen 4 wheeler, and I open the door to the storeroom and discover your indoor growing operation, I have to go back and get a warrant that allows me to search for other evidence pertaining to the indoor growing operation. The original warrant only permitted me to look for the stolen 4 wheeler. A search warrant isn't a fishing license. You may only look for the items specified on the warrant. And you may only look in places where the items might be. For instance I couldn't look in a toolbox for the stolen 4 wheeler, because it couldn't be concealed there, and if I opened the toolbox and discovered stolen tools or bags of powder cocaine, that likely wouldn't be admissible because it would be overstepping the bounds of the court ordered search to look for a 4 wheeler in a toolbox.

Jeff

 

[yesit'sloaded]

A can of c4 They don't exactly stock that at the local rod and gun store. How on earth do you get such a thing without stealing it from the government? Members of my family have gotten dynamite to blow up beaver dams before, but I don't remember c4 being available at all legally.

 

[Big Boomer]

The reason why there is never any PRO-government propaganda found is because

it was known under a few former administrations as "communistic" but later disguised and can now be found here:

http://www.Democrats.org/

 

[MakAttak]

it was known under a few former administrations as "communistic" but later disguised and can now be found here:

http://www.Democrats.org/

Actually, I'm pretty sure you will find a nice mix of pro-government AND anti-government propaganda there....

 

[plexreticle]

Dulin said officers also found in the home "numerous pieces of anti-government propaganda representing his (Snider's) belief that the (Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist) attacks were organized by the United States government."

What does this have to do with anything? The guy has a marijuana farm and C4. Why does the officer feel like he has to pile thought crimes onto the charges.

 

[ilbob]

How come nobody ever has pieces of 'pro-government propaganda'?

New York Times
PBS

etc

 

[El Tejon]

kludge, do you have to consent? Well, if you have to consent, then it is no longer consent, right? I used that line a couple of years ago and I got a laugh out of a judge.

Anywho, Wednesday the tilecrawler grapevine from Carroll County had advised of a possible bad search issue. The problem with search and seizure is that it is highly fact sensitive and opinions based on hearsay are not always accurate. Thus, we will wait and see.

Slugless, maybe smell may be enough to search a motor vehicle (which are exempt from the warrant requirement as cars are agile, hostile and mobile), houses are still subject to warrant requirements. Smell of dope may or may not be enough for a warrant.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

in va its more difficult to be a dnr cop than many local forces.
higher standards in many areas

 

[Henry Bowman]

As Oklahoma law mysteriously does not control in Indiana, let's look at the Indiana statute:

Before you head to court on this, counselor, you'd better check the Texas statute, which we all know is the controlling law everywhere.

 

[UhKlem]

C4 hysteria

I didn't see any mention of detonators. Without that C4 is pretty inert, actually safer than a can of gasoline. Far more shelf stable than common dynamite. Far more stable than legal materials one can mail order and combine into exploding targets. It very likely is stolen from the military, although anyone with a college organic chemistry class and lab could easily make small quantities of their own. I've never been in a hardware store that didn't have "bomb-making" materials. Thus the poor slob is guilty of a thought crime.

 

[Jeff White]

I didn't see any mention of detonators. Without that C4 is pretty inert, actually safer than a can of gasoline. Far more shelf stable than common dynamite. Far more stable than legal materials one can mail order and combine into exploding targets.

Doesn't change the fact that possession without the proper permits is illegal.

It very likely is stolen from the military, although anyone with a college organic chemistry class and lab could easily make small quantities of their own.

Even if he made himself, it's still illegal.

I've never been in a hardware store that didn't have "bomb-making" materials. Thus the poor slob is guilty of a thought crime.

He's not guilty of anything at this time. However if he's convicted, it won't be of a thought crime. Production of marijuana, possession with intent to distribute, possession of firearms while engaged in the production of marijuana, possession of stolen government property and possession of explosivies without the proper license and permits come immediately to mind. None of those is a thought crime.

Jeff

 

[Seancass]

i remember hearing specifically that he had, what seemed like, a large amount of "det cord." will that set it off? today on the news they made a big deal of the TOW missile launcher he had, sans missile. said that alone was $100k worth of govt property.

 

[Jeff White]

i remember hearing specifically that he had, what seemed like, a large amount of "det cord." will that set it off?

Yes, if it was in fact det cord and not time fuse, it will detonate the C4.

today on the news they made a big deal of the TOW missile launcher he had, sans missile. said that alone was $100k worth of govt property.

A TOW night sight isn't cheap. I don't know if it's $100K or not, but it's definately not inexpensive.

Jeff

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Neo-Luddite,

C-4 comes in cans??? Growing dope indoors? Anti-goverment propaganda??

Please remember that the 'primary' source of this report was the Lafayette Journal & Courier. When they say C-4 it can mean anything from liquid propellent grade to astrolite. This is the paper that informed the public that 'napalm' is an ingredient of 'jellied gasoline.'

Rule of thumb- any story coming out of Tippecanoe, Cass, Carrol, White, Benton or Jasper County(s) IN needs to be taking with a grain of salt roughly the size of an C-130.

Selena

 

[ARGarrison]

I wondered when this story would break and get a thread on THR. Adding to the story is parts were reportedly found to make one of the "AR-15 type" rifles full auto. The C-4 looked to be in a tupperware can, but has been called a Skoal can, also. Snider is in the Carroll County Jail charged with at least 8 felonies, all state charges at this time. Federal charges are expected to follow. Another arrest was made at the same time and he was charged with maintaning a common nuasance.

Indaina CO have had full police powers since 1973 as well as enforcing Fish and Wildlife laws since 1873, IIRC.

Link to Carroll County's weekly paper's story:
http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/news/2007/1031/Front_Page/001.html

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I know-- I was expressing my outrage--btw--what's 'astrolite'?

The whole thing sounds silly--sure, theft of government property is a concern if such charges are true--but a TOW tracker isn't exactly usuful for much and might be a surplus item nowadays. Now..IF HE HAD A MISSLE ON HAND, WELL....

As for the marijuana, I don't personally have any involvement with it, but I think we waste our time persecuting citizens for engaging in such activities unless they are directly involved in corrupting minors/dealing. In these parts, CO's tend to find outdoor/outbuilding plots of grass quite a bit as the nature of their works take them down the backroads and over country. They also find occasional meth labs that haven't blown up yet.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Neo-Luddite,

Sorry, Astrolite is a liquid explosive my Uncle told me about. I guess in Vietnam they called the stuff "instant foxhole." It's formulation or class I have no idea.

As for marijuana, it's not that high up on my list of priorities. I have been told repeatedly that one in ten crimes actually result in incarceration. Given the choice between nine marijuana offenses or a armed robber I would much prefer the latter.

Selena
Selena

 

[flynlr]

200 or so rounds of ammo per gun isn't a stockpile in my book.

 

[UhKlem]

Laws of men and laws of physics

My last post did not comment on the legality of unpermitted explosives, or the reasonableness of those laws, simply on whether such items in and of themselves pose much of a risk or threat worthy of a news story. Certainly when my local SWAT team had many pounds of HE, cutting charges, det cord, detonators, etc. stolen a few years back from an unguarded shed, that barely made a mention in The Animal Farm Gazette here.

On the other hand, a functional definition of news is "something that doesn't happen very often", so if it is in the news it likely isn't something one needs to worry about. Here in the drought stricken southwest idiots who toss lit cigarettes out of cars or kids playing with matches pose far more risk to life and property than two dozen packrat survivalist hempoterristas.

As to the thought crime comment, well, one man's hardware store is another man's source of nefarious supplies, it's all in the intent. What can I say, the law is kind to hardware stores. I'd be really worried if he had cell phones though. A skoal can of C4 is enough to make a couple of Mossad headpunching dial-a-poppers.

BTW, even detcord requires a primer or detonator to set it off. As for the TOW launcher, I recall a few years back one of those was for sale in Shotgun News. It's not rifled so it isn't a DD and it's always possible that it could have been part of a scrap or salvage lot that was legitimately sold off to a salvage dealer. The TOW has been around for a long time in various versions and in the not so distant past the demil procedures weren't nearly as PC as they are now.

The thought crime comment wasn't a reference to criminal law. And he is guilty; he's guilty of being stupid.

What is it with these postal workers anyway?

 

[ilbob]

He's not guilty of anything at this time. However if he's convicted, it won't be of a thought crime. Production of marijuana, possession with intent to distribute, possession of firearms while engaged in the production of marijuana, possession of stolen government property and possession of explosivies without the proper license and permits come immediately to mind. None of those is a thought crime.

And not a single one of these "crimes" harmed anyone one iota.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

Growing dope indoors?

You can grow dope indoors quite easily. When I was young and stupid, I used to do it. Now that I'm old and not so stupid, I don't anymore. All you need is some potting soil and some Glo-Lux fluorescent lights.

The problem I have with it is did the LEO's lawfully enter the home - which is the only way they could have popped him for growing pot indoors. I know that most cities and towns have some kind of ordinance against unlawful discharge of a firearm within city limits. The city limits of Grapevine, Texas extend well out past where the bulk of the homes and businesses are built. It would be easily possible to discharge a firearm on private property, well away from the nearest neighbors, and still be within the city limits of either Grapevine, or one of the other nearby towns.

I'm not faulting the accused, necessarily, but I know that a gunshot on private property, even in a rural or semi-rural area, is going to draw the cops if it occurs within city limits, if for no other reason that to determine whether or not the property owner is safe and OK.

 

[kudu]

When I looked into becoming a Conservation Officer after I graduated, I found that in Indiana a CO has more authority than a county sheriff, a city police chief, or a State Trooper. They are the top of the heap when it comes to policing powers in the state. They are also the least paid member of law enforcement in Indiana, at least they were 20 years ago. AND they are most likely to be fired upon when they are on duty of any law enforcement field.

Not saying what went down is right or wrong, we'll have to wait and see what develops.

 

[ServiceSoon]

I never understood why CO's are granted magical powers that clearly violate Indiana's State Constitution article 1 section 11.