I have shot at this range hundreds of times. They announce at every ceasefire that you cannot touch ammo or a firearm during a ceasefire and that all firearms should be unloaded and with the breach open. These are good rules in my opinion. You should not have been loading your rifle and your side arm is not exempt to the "unloaded in a ceasefire" rule. You were not following the instructions of the RO. Please never go to this range again. I would have left if you were handling a firearm during a ceasefire. The RO was crazy to touch your gun, no question that he should have handled this differently. He should have asked you to leave and never come back.
Interesting encounter at the DNR shooting range
- Thread starter Grey Morel
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Big Daddy Grim
Member
He would have had a busted mouth for sure.
Grey Morel
Member
JDL357: You are mistaken sir. I was NOT LOADING MY RIFLE DURING A CEASE FIRE. This entire incident occurred on a HOT RANGE, while others were shooting. I was there with my Fiance, and she was sitting next to me the entire time. I have a credible wittiness.
Additionally, a weapon in my holster is NOT being handled, and as such it is secure. At least until some some fool snatches it and starts handling it.
update:
I got a hold of the Kingsburry FWA manager yesterday, and told him my story. He didn't sound happy. He said he would talk to the RO about his actions; we will see if anything comes of that.
jrou111
Member
When he drew your gun from your holster, did he have it pointed at you?
Grey Morel
Member
When he drew my gun, he was behind me and facing the same direction as myself. When I turned and looked at him, he was holding the pistol in his right hand, pointing the muzzle to his left. It is very possible that he swept my body when transitioning between those two positions, but I didn't SEE the transition, so its only speculation. i wouldn't put it past him though.
Sorry, I read your post as: "After posting my targets durring the "all clear", I sat down at my bench and began loading my rifle."
I thought you were saying you were loading during a ceasefire.
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, I have seen a few people with poor gun handling skills at this range and the RO's are usually good at explaining the rules.
I do agree that this RO was WAY out of line for grabbing your holstered gun. I think I know which guy this is. Next time I see him, I will ask him about this and let you know what he has to say. If he is still employed there!
I thought you were saying you were loading during a ceasefire.
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, I have seen a few people with poor gun handling skills at this range and the RO's are usually good at explaining the rules.
I do agree that this RO was WAY out of line for grabbing your holstered gun. I think I know which guy this is. Next time I see him, I will ask him about this and let you know what he has to say. If he is still employed there!
If someone comes up from behind me and grabs the gun out of my holster, I am NOT going to write a letter, speak to a superviser, engage in conversation or any other PC deed. I am going to disarm him and if possible render him unconscious. Without further ado. The Supreme Court has said that the police do not have to protect the public from criminals. The military is prohibited to do police work inside the U.S. Who does that leave? Me!!!
The guy would be lucky if I didn't shoot him.
PS I am not afraid of the police.
The guy would be lucky if I didn't shoot him.
PS I am not afraid of the police.
Grey Morel
Member
I never did update you all:
Last i heard, the range officer in question (john i believe) got a stern talking to, and has not been seen by other local shooters for some time. i don't know what happened to him, but I hope he got fired.
Last i heard, the range officer in question (john i believe) got a stern talking to, and has not been seen by other local shooters for some time. i don't know what happened to him, but I hope he got fired.
No question about it: you were assaulted and robbed, badge or not!!
You may have even been stalked.
Grey morel::You stated,"The same range rules are posted at this range that are posted at the other DNR ranges that i have been to...." At the Winnamak (DNR, Public no-fee) range there was a new rule posted 6/16, that only applies to Illinois residents: IL residents may NOT bring private handguns into Indiana to shoot. Per In. State Police. This is too new to be challenged, but it sure looks contrary to the Second Amendment. IOW, at In. ranges, an Ill. license plate makes you look like a felon with a gun!! !! !!// john BT :: "I'd grab a BUG and shoot him." Let's see, he's holding a loaded gun - yours - and has one of his own and you're going to try and outdraw him? How foolish are you? You can't be that stupid can you?"" Hey, JohnBT, somebody has just STOLEN my handgun, and I didn't see who/what he was, and I have a rifle in my hands. Hmmmmmmmm; has the word "Buttstroked" ever entered your mind?? Just what would be the normal reaction?? Duuuuuhh!! // Macgille says, ""The idiot who grabbed your gun should have been decked on the spot. There is no reason to have a handgun in a holster while you are shooting a long gun." Oh really !?!?!? Ever heard of the 2d amendment?? "...shall not be infringed (be the infringer a R.O. or not." In IN. there is NO rule or law preventing a long-gun target shooter from CARRYING ON HIS PERSON a pistol NONE!! // {Officers' wife}: (Is that apostrophe in the right place??) ::"In Indiana a DNR employee is considered a law enforcement officer." So is a Police dog, and this RO was dumber that THAT!! ANYONE pulling my weapon out of my holster from behind my back gets DECKED, and THEN I.D.d. It's the old "judged by 12 vs carried by 6" argument. A DNR employee is not necessarily inbued with LEO authority. IOW, it may just be the badge that gets the on-that-spot authority. DNR personnel don't take the LEO oath. Stalking me from my blind-side and stealing my weapon without announcement is not just PLAIN STUPID AND RUDE, it may be deadly. When I was shooting recently, a pair of "Dudes" in the typical teen-age regalia came to the 25yd range and broke out and loaded-up NINE handguns to show their tag-along girlfriend how to shoot to protect herself. They all 3 were very mannerly, all muzzles always downrange, announcing going to post tgts, "fire in the hole", and all that. As I left I pondered, that if some person knew that these kids had all of these guns out at once, it would be an easy "smash-n-grab" (in this case "shoot'em-dead-n-grab") to kill 3 teens and grab the weapons. Not keeping a BUG in reserve for cases like this is silly. I believe that one of our site members was killed at a range for his guns. And my last rant: I would have decked the "assailant" and asked questions later. I might even have shot "him", whoever "it" might have been, depending on the "condition" of my long-gun at that moment. Just my $0.02
XX
You may have even been stalked.
Grey morel::You stated,"The same range rules are posted at this range that are posted at the other DNR ranges that i have been to...." At the Winnamak (DNR, Public no-fee) range there was a new rule posted 6/16, that only applies to Illinois residents: IL residents may NOT bring private handguns into Indiana to shoot. Per In. State Police. This is too new to be challenged, but it sure looks contrary to the Second Amendment. IOW, at In. ranges, an Ill. license plate makes you look like a felon with a gun!! !! !!// john BT :: "I'd grab a BUG and shoot him." Let's see, he's holding a loaded gun - yours - and has one of his own and you're going to try and outdraw him? How foolish are you? You can't be that stupid can you?"" Hey, JohnBT, somebody has just STOLEN my handgun, and I didn't see who/what he was, and I have a rifle in my hands. Hmmmmmmmm; has the word "Buttstroked" ever entered your mind?? Just what would be the normal reaction?? Duuuuuhh!! // Macgille says, ""The idiot who grabbed your gun should have been decked on the spot. There is no reason to have a handgun in a holster while you are shooting a long gun." Oh really !?!?!? Ever heard of the 2d amendment?? "...shall not be infringed (be the infringer a R.O. or not." In IN. there is NO rule or law preventing a long-gun target shooter from CARRYING ON HIS PERSON a pistol NONE!! // {Officers' wife}: (Is that apostrophe in the right place??) ::"In Indiana a DNR employee is considered a law enforcement officer." So is a Police dog, and this RO was dumber that THAT!! ANYONE pulling my weapon out of my holster from behind my back gets DECKED, and THEN I.D.d. It's the old "judged by 12 vs carried by 6" argument. A DNR employee is not necessarily inbued with LEO authority. IOW, it may just be the badge that gets the on-that-spot authority. DNR personnel don't take the LEO oath. Stalking me from my blind-side and stealing my weapon without announcement is not just PLAIN STUPID AND RUDE, it may be deadly. When I was shooting recently, a pair of "Dudes" in the typical teen-age regalia came to the 25yd range and broke out and loaded-up NINE handguns to show their tag-along girlfriend how to shoot to protect herself. They all 3 were very mannerly, all muzzles always downrange, announcing going to post tgts, "fire in the hole", and all that. As I left I pondered, that if some person knew that these kids had all of these guns out at once, it would be an easy "smash-n-grab" (in this case "shoot'em-dead-n-grab") to kill 3 teens and grab the weapons. Not keeping a BUG in reserve for cases like this is silly. I believe that one of our site members was killed at a range for his guns. And my last rant: I would have decked the "assailant" and asked questions later. I might even have shot "him", whoever "it" might have been, depending on the "condition" of my long-gun at that moment. Just my $0.02
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Grey Morel
Member
Yes. I still Open carry, but you can bet your bottom dollar I use holsters with a retention mechanism.
I have since learned that plastic paddle holsters offer absolutely no protection. Now when I open carry I use duty rated holsters with mechanical locking mechanisms only.
22-rimfire
Member
There is no range officer at the public ranges I have shot at. Unless there are folks shooting (in my vicinity under the roofed area), I generally remove my hearing protection when I'm not actually shooting. With more people, I always have my hearing protection on. The fact is I usually have the range to myself most times I visit. Last time I was there, if was LEO's only present and that was fun as I watched more than I shot. There is a TWRA range near Nashville that I suspect will have a range officer on duty as it is quite popular for the Nashville folks.
Same rules as Grey mentioned above.
Pulling your handgun from your holster from behind could be construed as an attack. The officer was treading on very iffy ground doing such a stunt, loaded or unloaded.
Same rules as Grey mentioned above.
Pulling your handgun from your holster from behind could be construed as an attack. The officer was treading on very iffy ground doing such a stunt, loaded or unloaded.
Uncle Mike
Member
Since you did not adhere to Navy training and break his jaw... you may have to resort to the next best thing...an attorney...
You can't....
Sleep, have sex, eat, drive, hold down a job, think, use the toilet, even look at a firearm now much less use one, oh.. the nightmares, your gaining weight, high blood pressure, low blood pressure, ingrown toe nails, balding and bad breath...
What he did was just plain ol' wrong...period!
Dangerous at least... was your pistol loaded?... endangerment comes to mind.
Of course it takes oodles of cash to go to court....
You can't....
Sleep, have sex, eat, drive, hold down a job, think, use the toilet, even look at a firearm now much less use one, oh.. the nightmares, your gaining weight, high blood pressure, low blood pressure, ingrown toe nails, balding and bad breath...
What he did was just plain ol' wrong...period!
Dangerous at least... was your pistol loaded?... endangerment comes to mind.
Of course it takes oodles of cash to go to court....
Superlite27
Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2007
- Messages
- 712
+1 Easiest holster to steal a gun out of. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeKtgkZKmQ
Nothing but heavy duty leather, belt loop secured for me. I keep it at about 4:30 so my elbow can quickly pin it to my side to "trap" it while I pivot to my left or right depending on the situation and position of the "gun grabber".
I would not have reacted to the RO by "jacking him up" or shooting him with my BUG, but you can believe I would have taken control of the situation and retrieved my gun back in the quickest and most direct method possible while insisting on the police being involved. What happened to you Gey Morel, was nothing less than physical assault. It might not have been "violent", but it was intentional on his part, and unwanted on yours. That's all that is needed to involve the "real" authorities.
Glad you did the right thing, an reported it. That guy was wrong for going for your gun, had a bad case of wanting to be the "Big Man" an show off his authority. If he wasn't fired he should of been. Just imagine you felt something tugging an your reflex went to grab at that tug at your gun, an he has the gun an you have part of it too an a breif struggle begins because you don't know what is going on, an he is already committed to hanging on to it....BAAAM!!!! Like a above post said, you learn in kindergarden to keep your hands off other peoples stuff. What a total Bonehead.
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