Interesting rifle articles in June American Rifleman magazine,,,,

[Onmilo]

I just finished readin my June American Rifleman magazine and the articles about the CZ-USA Sporter version of the VZ-58 rifle and the newly designed Ruger Mini-14 rifles really caught my interest.

What really caught my eye was the accuracy comparison tables shown for both rifles and what might be appealing to AK type rifle fans is the fact that the VZ-58 rifle displayed markedly better accuracy that even the 'new, improved' Mini 14.

An overall average for three loads at 100 yards gave the VZ-58 rifle a 3.34" overall grouping with Wolf steel case 154 grain soft point hunting loads showing the most promise in the rifle.
This stuff got a small group of just over 2", a largest of 3.89" and the overall average was 2.79"
That. folks is an Ak capable of delivering under 3" @ 100 meters!
Call me impressed because I am.

Now the Mini 14,,,,,,
Using three different, very premium .223 loadings and the overall average for the Mini was a disappointing 3.81"
That is a full half inch larger average group average than a sporter version of an ex-combloc assault rifle managed.
Pretty pathetic and it shows you can pretty up a dog, but it is still a dog.

The Ruger did a bit better on the smallest group size when paired with Hornaday TAP 75 grain ammo with a smallest group of 2.64"
However, the largest group size with this ammunition was 5.04" @ 100 yards for an average of 3.38"

Now the largest overall average with the Czech rifle was 3.85" and I must point out that none of the loads used in testing the VZ-58 rifle cost anywhere near as much as the .223 TAP ammo which is priced about $26.00 a box of 20 on the retail market.
That's a buck thirty a round for marginal accuracy!

A quote attributed to Wliiam B. Ruger after speaking with Col. Rene Studler of the Army Ordinance Corp started the Mini 14 article off,,,,
"If we had brough the Mini-14 rifle out five years earlier, it would have become the standard Army rifle."

For justifiable reasons, I seriously doubt that would have happened.

 

[Treo]

An AK made by CZ is still a CZ

 

[hksw]

An AK made by CZ is still a CZ

The Vz-58 is quite different from an AK, but, even if CZ did currently make an AK, it probably would be much sought after.

 

[Picard]

Yeah, the VZ is not an AK. I agree that if CZ did make one, it would be amazing.

 

[cracked butt]

A quote attributed to Wliiam B. Ruger after speaking with Col. Rene Studler of the Army Ordinance Corp started the Mini 14 article off,,,,
"If we had brough the Mini-14 rifle out five years earlier, it would have become the standard Army rifle."

There's also good reasoning why old Bill was in support of 'assault weapons' bans- his rifle costs nearly as much as an AR-15 and is less durable, yet it gets worse accuracy than combloc weapons that cost a fraction of the price. Some market niche...

 

[jdc1244]

As noted in the article the 58’s gas piston is not directly connected to the bolt carrier, unlike an AK and more like an SKS. That would contribute to the accuracy. I’d sure like one but can’t justify the expense now.

 

[jdc1244]

Sorry for the dup...

 

[bratch]

Also the Mini has a 1/9 barrel not the best for shooting a 75 gr pill.

I was impressed that the Wolf shot the best out of the CZ.

 

[skinewmexico]

Also the Mini has a 1/9 barrel not the best for shooting a 75 gr pill.

About as close as you can get without buying a Savage bolt.

 

[Onmilo]

There are plenty of 1-7" twist barrels available for AR-15 rifles, a much better choice for 70 grain and heavier bullets from a .223

I had an early 1-12" Mini 14 and could get groups no better than 4" @ 100 meters.
I did manage to kill a whitetail using the rifle and a 64 grain power soft point Winchester cartridge down in Bastrop county Texas many years ago.

I had great hopes for the Mini 14 and like so many others, I bought mine because of the wood and steel appeal, the rifles just never have lived up to expectations.
Even the fabled Chief AJ Mini 14 rifles were hard pressed to do better than 2 moa.

I am aware the Czech rifle is different than the AK/AKM yet still, I have to be impressed by the overall results the rifle demonstrated.
My Egyptian sporter AKM is hard pressed to hold 6 moa and will only get to 4 moa using very expensive Finnish Lapua ammunition.

What I see in the CZ Vz-58 sporter rifle is a value priced rifle that will easily hold 4 moa using fairly inexpensive steel case ammunition.
In my eyes that is impressive and something to note for future shooters on a budget.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I read the same articles and the main thing I noticed was that all ammo tested was shooting very sloooow in conditions that were pretty standard temperature-wise. The 762x39mm stuff was about 200fps below spec or what it usually is clocked at in a 16" barrel. The various .223 loads in the Mini-14 (16") were running 300fps or more below advertised velocities. I realize that's in a barrel 8" shorter than normal test length, but it makes a big difference in trajectory and effect on target. Does anyone else think the reported velocities are slow? A symptom of the two rifles, or of ammo makers backing off more and more on pressure?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Let's take a look at this objectively using just the data from the American Rifleman article.

Best five-shot group: 2.64"
Worst five-shot group: 5.64"
Average five-shot group: 3.81"

Receiver: Cast 4140 chrome-moly steel
Chamber: .223 hybrid (between SAAMI and 5.56 NATO)
Magazine: 20rd factory mag
Barrel: 16 1/8" chrome-moly 1:9
Operation: Gas piston
Weight: 6lbs., 12oz.
Trigger: 6lbs., 14oz.
OAL: 35 3/8"
Optics Mount: Integral proprietary mount

Now if you didn't know the name of the rifle and already have an opinion of it, who would look at that data and say "$1,035 sounds like a good MSRP for that rifle!"?

Until I saw the price, I would have been wondering what AK variant they were reviewing.

Does anyone else think the reported velocities are slow?

Good point. The 75gr Hornady TAP chrono'ed about 100fps slower than the same load out of my 16" AR with SS match barrel. Admittedly, the weather was about 10-15F hotter and only about 800' above sea level; but otherwise the conditions were fairly similar.

 

[Onmilo]

I'm willing to give the test results the benefit of not displaying maximum accuracy potential of the reviewed rifles because the rifles tested were probably brand new examples that had not had the barrels settled in prior to being targeted for test results.
Barrels will not normally achieve maximum velocity and accuracy until a minimum of 1000 rounds have been fired and neither test mentioned any barrel settling prior to testing.


I paid $250.00 for my first Mini 14 rifle.
I paid $200.00 for the Maadi AKM Sporter.

Manufacturers suggested retail is a misleading pricing formula because, like automobiles, nobody in the buisiness expects to sell the rifles for those prices, the MSRP is only a guide.

The CZ rifle can easily be sold for a hundred bucks less than the Mini 14 at real market value.-

Two important questions apply to both manufacturers and rifles at this point.

1. Can the manufacturers meet the needs of supply and demand, neither Ruger or CZ-USA are known for saturating the market with product and both have shown an unwillingness or inability to meet demand on certain popular offerings.

2. Spare magazines,,, Ruger is supposed to begin providing factory 20 shot magazines to the citizen market 'if the NRA Mini 14 demonstrates the publics demand and production capacity becomes available.'
Translation, 'we might start making 20 shot magazines available to the public provided you guys buy our stuff and we then decide we want to.'

With the CZ VZ-58 rifle, one must bear in mind that this variation does not accept the same magazine as the Com-Bloc AK/AKM variations.
While VZ-58 magazines do turn up on the surplus market from time to time the quantities are not great and no mention was made in the article as to whether CZ is actually producing these magazines again or whether they are using old stock on hand at the factory.
One should note that the rifle only comes with one magazine.

A semi automatic detachable box magazine weapon becomes nothing more than a self ejecting single shot if a ready supply of replacement magazines is not made available.

As I stated, both articles are quite interesting if one reads between the lines.

 

[blfuller]

It may be worth noting that the Vz.58 will accept SKS stripper clips. It would be loaded the same way as a SKS.

 

[HighRoad]

Lets also not forget about the milled receiver. This rifle is just plain awesome. These will not be around forever. If you're on the fence on this one ... just buy it~!

 

[FEG]

To clear a few matters up:

The vz-58 does NOT use SKS stripper clips. It can use stripper clips, but these are of Czechoslovakian manufacture, just for the vz-58. About the only way to get them is to buy Czech surplus on the clips.

There are a lot of places to buy mil surp magazines for the vz-58. You can also buy magazines with two U.S. compliance parts from CZ-USA. Tennessee Guns International sells the magazine compliance parts separately, if you want to switch out some mil surp magazines.

 

[MinnMooney]

That kind of accuracy - or should I say, in-accuracy - in more in line with the old style Mini-14s. The new & improved has been tested by several columnists and found to be reasonably accurate, like 1.5 MOA or better IF the harmonic tuner on the barrel is set for each load to find that load's "sweet spot".

 

[blfuller]

To clear a few matters up:

The vz-58 does NOT use SKS stripper clips

.

My Vz.58 will accept SKS stripper clips. These strippers were obtained from tapco and I'm pretty sure they are Chinese in origin.

 

[FEG]

Is there some "trick" you are using? My rifle will not feed at all with the Chinese stripper clips I have. Some of the Czech and Kiwi members at CZF said it takes its own clip, so I accepted it on face value.

Mine is a CZ-USA rifle with the newly manufactured Slovak semi-auto receiver. It shouldn't make a difference, since all bolt carrier assemblies should be the same spec.

Here's a pictorial review I did. My rifle shoots a lot better than the American Rifleman specimen:

http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/t...ssions-New-vz-58-Tactical-Sporter.html?page=1

The pictures do not start until the bottom of the first page.

 

[dstorm1911]

Onmillo, as mentioned the VZ-58 mags are very common, and cheaper than AK mags currently in fact at about $10 ea

All 3 of my VZ58s I built on OOW receivers before they were ever imported as complete rifles, the accuracy of all 3 is actually a little better than the artical lists as mine will run 2 MOA easily with good ammo, one I put a side rail on and regularily get ragged hole groups with glass mounted on it with my own handloads, what I like best though is the ability to switch from a side folder to a fixed stock in under a minute if I so wish as the mood strikes me

FEG, all of mine feed perfectly from chicom stripper clips as well, no trick just snap em in and push down

 

[FEG]

FEG, all of mine feed perfectly from chicom stripper clips as well, no trick just snap em in and push down.

Thanks for the tip, guys. I wonder if I should open up a different bag of clips to try. Once I initially had trouble, I didn't keep trying with all of the different ones on hand.

There is actually Czech 7.62x39 ammo on stripper clips out there, but I haven't seen any in a long time.

 

[blfuller]

The bolt carrier has a couple of small cuts in it that the little bumbs on the sides of the stripper clips mate with. Maybe your carrier does not have the small cuts.

 

[jlbraun]

With a 1X 4MOA Aimpoint, my AK will do 3 MOA from prone. The vz58 is cool but not really worth buying for those with an AK that happens to be accurate already.

 

[FEG]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Using the OEM iron sights, my vz-58 shames any AK I have owned. It is more comparable to a really good SKS. It is also lighter and has less recoil. (Granted, the version I have does come with a 1" recoil pad!)

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

The Mini-14 is a gun I really, really want to like, but just can't quite. If they would thread the muzzle, switch to AR-like sights (dual aperture rear and threaded front), and make 20- and 30-round mags available for a decent price, the Mini would be near the top of my shopping list.

That, I believe, would be pretty easy for Ruger to do.