Iran supplies IR-triggered shaped-charge bombs in Iraq?

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Preacherman

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From the Sunday Telegraph, London (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai....xml&sSheet=/news/2005/08/21/ixnewstop.html):

Iran 'supplies infra-red bombs' that kill British troops in Iraq

By Toby Harnden, Chief Foreign Correspondent

(Filed: 21/08/2005)

British soldiers in Iraq are being killed by advanced "infra-red" bombs supplied by Iran that defeat jamming equipment, according to military intelligence officials.

The "passive infra-red" devices, whose use in Iraq is revealed for the first time by The Sunday Telegraph, are detonated when the beam is broken, as when an intruder triggers a burglar alarm. They were used by the Iranian-backed Hezbollah group against Israel in Lebanon from 1995.


wiran21big.jpg



A radio signal is used to arm the bomb as a target vehicle approaches. The next object to break the infra-red beam - the target vehicle - detonates the device.

Coalition officials see the disturbing development as a key part of an aggressive new campaign by Teheran to drive coalition forces out of Iraq so that an Islamic theocracy can be established.

American and British intelligence officials believe that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is training, supplying and funding part of Iraq's insurgent Shia network and that its activities have been stepped up since the spring.

Links between Shia and Sunni Muslim groups, usually via trading by criminal arms dealers, means that expertise quickly spreads across Iraq.

"These guys have picked up in two years what it took the IRA a quarter-century to learn," said an Army bomb disposal officer in Iraq.

Four British soldiers are believed to have been killed by infra-red devices made in the town of Majar-al-Kabir. The bombmaker, in his early forties, was one of the agitators behind the mob killing of six Red Caps there in June, 2003. The man, whose name is known by this newspaper but has not been published for security reasons, has connections to Iran, and has reportedly been seen with agents from Teheran. His arrest has been ordered, and two of his lieutenants were detained in June.

After the arrests, however, three soldiers from the Staffordshire Regiment were killed when their armoured Land Rover was blown up by a roadside bomb in al-Amara, last month as they were lured into a trap.

Second Lt Richard Shearer, Pte Leon Spicer and Pte Phillip Hewett died instantly as they investigated gunfire.

Guardsman Anthony Wakefield of the Coldstream Guards died from wounds inflicted by a similar infra-red device in al-Amara in May. As the "top cover" gunner, his head and shoulders were exposed in an armoured Land Rover. The bomb was set at a precise height and directed towards the road so it would hit a soldier in this position.

"This was something completely new," said one military intelligence officer. "Before, they used to keep bashing away with the same crude devices again and again. The Iranian influence has shown itself in the sophistication of their bombs and a new ability to innovate."

British intelligence reports indicate that complete infra-red devices, carefully machined in military workshops, are being delivered to Shia militants in Iraq.

British officials said Iran had also been providing Shia insurgents with "shaped charges", which use a directional explosive force to fire a metal projectile that penetrates heavy armour.

Iran's interference threatens to inflame sectarian tensions in Iraq and hasten what coalition officials dread most - civil war between the Shias and the Sunni minority.

Iran's recent elections, in which the hardline Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was elected president gave fresh impetus to its "meddling" in Iraq, according to Mohammad Mohaddessin, an Iranian opposition leader in exile in Paris.

"The regime in Teheran is very concerned about a democracy being created right next to Iran," he said. "They also believe that the more chaos there is in Iraq, the less attention will be paid by America and Britain to Iran's nuclear ambitions."

Iranian policy had already been boosted by Iraq's elections. They returned a Shia-dominated government led by Ibrahim al-Jaafari, who lived in exile in Iran, rather than the secular Iyad Allawi, the candidate preferred by Washington.

Before the introduction of infra-red devices, bombs in Iraq were usually set off by an electronic remote control signal found in a mobile telephone, car locking device, garage door opener or even a child's toy.

They could be blocked by electronic countermeasures developed by the Army in Northern Ireland.

These are powerless, however, against infra-red beams, which can be modified from burglar alarm systems. Military commanders have briefed soldiers to be more cautious and avoid rushing into potential attacks. Patrol routes are varied so that no pattern is set.

Infra-red beams have been used by the IRA, and by the Red Army Faction to kill Alfred Herrhausen, the chairman of the Deutsche Bank, in 1989.

"There has always been cross fertilisation of terrorist technology across the terror diaspora," said a former Army bomb disposal officer. "Infra-red is virtually impossible to jam whereas radio control and cell phone systems are jammable."
 
Some things don't make sense, though.

Why are they calling explosively formed projectiles shaped charges? Why do they know they're from Iran, when they also know Hezbolla has them, and they know that there's a wee bit of an insurgency in Iraq?

Furthermore, if you set up an ir beam trap, won't it be triggered by the first thing to break it? Sounds like, if it's not a hoax story, a group of Iraqis would have to run out into a street and line up the projector with the reflector, and set up an explosive, and check it and test it, within the few seconds they have before a tank comes around a corner... Doesn't compute. If they set it up ahead of time, then a donkey or a car or a kid or a blowing newspaper will trigger it.

This sounds almost exactly like the unmanned Migs that were modified to spray chemical weapons that Iraq had mad produced... Perhaps a shred of truth, but basicly just propaganda to establish cassus belli for another war.

Seriously, is there likely materiel coming in from Iran? Yes, of course it's likely. Is the border going to be patrolled and secured, yes, of course they're going to. But some stuff is still going to get in. Now, do you honestly think it's going to be something stupid and complicated and stupidly non-functional like a door-bell bomb stamped "made in Iran"? Or do you think maybe it'll be the RDX, RPG7 warheads, and crates of small-arms ammunition?

Oh well, people will still believe it, like all good science fiction.
 
JJJ, you'll note that the graphic states:
Insurgent arms bomb and switches on infra-red beam ... as the vehicle approaches.
This means that it can't be set off by just anyone - it's only switched on, or "armed", when a desirable target appears.
 
Joejojoba,
it is setup and remotely armed by radio. No problem to keep from blasting the donkey cart, just don't activate till the donky is past and the next vehicle is one of our folks.

If we know where they are coming from, why haven't we sent them some business reply mail".


Sam
 
Again, the whole 'switch' makes no sense. If you have a radio frequency that is not jammed, why use it to arm a complicated IR beam, when you could use it to detonate the bomb?

And if the the Iraqis set this bomb up ahead of time, and then dash out and turn it on when a tank is coming, it still makes no sense. It means that they are so close to the bomb when the tank comes that they could easily use a length of string to detonate the bomb!

Hakim's razor, this is bogus.


And why would they be using state-of-the-art explosively formed projectiles? Honestly? They have 125mm HEAT warheads from their ammunition stockpiles that have greater penetration than an EFP (which is really best for top-attack) can hope for.

This whole story just sort of smacks of the same writing a few years ago. Made to be technical and exciting, yet relevant to the ordinary Joe. And with an underlying moral sub-plot.

Again;
Is materiel coming in from Iran? Undoubtably.
Is the government in charge of it? Not likely.
Are they aware? Most likely.
Can they stop it? Probably some of it, but not all.

Was there a bomb like this? Most likely.
Are insurgents capable of trying a whole bunch of different designs and techniques? Absolutely.
Are bombs like this the best, the simplest, the most effective, the safest to use? It would seem not.
 
Iraq has enormous piles of weapons and explosives lying out in the open with no guards.

Iraq has enormous numbers of unemployed government workers that were put out of jobs by our boys in green. Admittedly they were supporting tyranny, but dismantling even a democratic welfare state presents similar problems.

Many who were previously frustrated in their political plans under Saddam realize they now have an awesome chance to realize their aspirations. For the Kurds, this means reestablishing their nation of Kurdistan. For the Shia, it means theocracy and sharia.

All the surrounding nations have stakes in the outcomes of all of these battles.
-Iran would love for the other main population of Shia muslims to become a theocratic sister state.
-The Syrians, Turks, Iranians and Jordanians are all deathly afraid of a powerful and rich (Kirkuk has a ton of oil) Kurdish nation in the middle the middle east. It would be like Israel, only they would be Muslims, so there could be no pretense of holy war.
-Israel doesnt want a powerful islamic theocracy that is hundreds of miles less far away than Iran- they would probably welcome the formation of Kurdistan, if only because it would be an enormous thorn in the side of their enemies.
-Everyone else is just sick of paying 70 bucks a barrel for oil and wants the Iraqis to stop squabbling and pump the oil.
 
And why would they be using state-of-the-art explosively formed projectiles? Honestly? They have 125mm HEAT warheads from their ammunition stockpiles that have greater penetration than an EFP (which is really best for top-attack) can hope for.
Check your sources.

Soviet 125mm HEAT rounds have the following layout: the shaped charge is located in the cylindrical main body

So what you are really saying is that:
They have [shaped charges] from their ammunition stockpiles that have greater penetration than [shaped charges] ... can hope for.
There are shaped charge devices that are substantially better than the shaped charge in the 125mm HEAT round.

IN early 1997, Lawrence Livermore successfully tested a shaped charge that penetrated 3.4 meters of high-strength armor steel.

125mm HEAT = 400mm (0.4 meter) penetration
LLNL device = 3,400mm (3.4 meter) penetration - that's over 11 feet... I'm impressed
 
The guy may be mixing up "forged projectile" and "Shaped Charge" because both do something with a piece of metal to make it a whole helluva lot better at punching holes in stuff.

Forged projectiles use a plate or something on an explosive charge that, when detonated, drives the plate forward with such stupendous force and heat that it "forges" into a pentatrator shape and goes flying into whatever it's pointed at with great zeal, right?

A Shaped Charge also has a metal plate in it, only it's on the inside of a cone or bowl-shaped cavity in the front of a charge; when the charge detonates, it turns this plate into a jet of plasma, shaped by the explosion, and drives this lance of pointy white-hot death forward, vaporizing armor and such, right?

I'm going on memory from a Wikipedia article I read a couple months ago, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

~Slam_Fire
 
Another point....

According to a buddy who used to work at Aberdeen proving grounds, the penetrative ability of a shaped charge is usually expressed in terms of inches of homogenous steel armor. The museum there reportedly has a cutaway of a 12 foot long piece of armor showing the plasma channel cut by such a charge.

Fortunately, we don't use homogenous armor, we use laminated armor, which interferes with a shaped charge's ability to cut because the grain of each layer is arranged in a different direction, which "detunes" the plasma wave and dissipates it.

Different arrangements of laminated armor are more or less effective, and their effectiveness is also expressed in terms of inches of homogenous steel armor.

I don't recall the exact ratio, but it's something like 10 inches of pretty good laminated armor = 10 feet of homogenous steel armor.
 
Again, the whole 'switch' makes no sense. If you have a radio frequency that is not jammed, why use it to arm a complicated IR beam, when you could use it to detonate the bomb?

Accuracy and effect.

There's a bit of a problem is having your insurgents remotely fire your traps: it's hard to precisely judge the relationship between your weapon and the target when you're hiding behind a mud-brick wall a hundred yards catty-cornered from the trap.

It gets even harder when the trigger is being held by an excited, poorly-trained insurgent-type who is substituting fanaticism for discipline.

With these weapons, you set it up and Ahmood hits the button as soon as the Bradley turns the corner. Then he's free to jump around in his OP like a grasshopper on a griddle, chanting, "Allah hu akbar" until the weapon goes bang, undisturbed by his excited squirming.

The terminal effects are improved also. These weapons are designed to be used in this manner. The most common IED in Iraq at this time, is exactly that: improvised. You take an artillery round, stuff the fuze hole full of Semtex and a detonator and then wire the detonater to a cell phone.

Granted, having a artillery shell go off on the shoulder of the road near your vehicle is nasty, and not something anyone wants to go through, nonetheless, most of your ka-boom is wasted on air.

These weapons concentrate the majority of the ka-boom on the intended target.

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

LawDog
 
Yup. One of the things I've gotten from reading mil blogs is that the jihadis aren't that good at timing the detonation. There's lots of videos of IEDs going off _between_ vehicles in an armored column, which is completely harmless, and to be encouraged.
 
Shaped charges have been around to close to 100 years. One of our best weapons in Desert Storm was the Rockeye bomblet which with it's shaped charge could easily penetrate Iraqi tanks. More IEDs are now no longer improvised but made in Iranian factories.
 
Actually I probably mis-read, maybe they weren't talking about efps.

an efp is, like said already, different from a HEAT warhead. But I guess they could be legitimately confused. efp is a metal slug that's formed out of a metal disk by some explosives. Shaped charge warhead takes a metal cone and turns it into a water gun. Technically there is no plasma created, that's a myth perpetuated. Plasma is charged particles that act like a gas but are effected by magnets. You have to have the energy to strip off electrons to make plasma, till it's balanced positive ions and electrons.
 
Actually I probably mis-read, maybe they weren't talking about efps.
Actually, who knows. The dish-shaped thing in the upper left corner of the news graphic looks like a shaped charge "jet" (LLNL's term) device and the description sounds like one. However, the actual weapon could be a shaped charge kinetic energy device (EFP). I have little confidence in the average reporter's ability to discern whether a shaped charge device converts a metal plate to a "jet" or deforms it into a projectile.

Nevertheless, EFP have been around for a while and aren't inconsequential weapons. The TOW 2B (BGM-71F) is an EFP weapon capable of 800mm penetration, or twice that of the 125MM HEAT.

Regardless of the description, it sounds like somebody in Iraq has progressed beyond simple IEDs to playing with something akin to a claymore-for-armor.
 
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