There is a Bersa Thunder at a local gun shop that looks pretty nice. I thought it might be a good gun for my wife. It felt really nice and seemed like it would be a good size for her. Is 380 enough or is it on the weak side. I've had it stuck in my head that I wouldn't want anything less than a 9mm(9x19) but Maybe I'm thinking wrong about it.
Is 380 enough
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carebear
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If you can hit with it, with modern ammo it will do the job just fine.
I'm comfortable with carrying mine when I can't/won't wear anything bigger.
See if you can rent or borrow one for her to try. If it is to be her gun, she will have to like it and feel comfortable with it. That includes liking how it looks too. If she thinks it is ugly she won't put the effort into training with it to build confidence.
Little things are important, sometimes more important than mere caliber preferences.
I'm comfortable with carrying mine when I can't/won't wear anything bigger.
See if you can rent or borrow one for her to try. If it is to be her gun, she will have to like it and feel comfortable with it. That includes liking how it looks too. If she thinks it is ugly she won't put the effort into training with it to build confidence.
Little things are important, sometimes more important than mere caliber preferences.
Tomac
Member
If the bullet can penetrate deep enough to reach vital targets (CNS, heart & other major arteries & blood-carrying organs) through intervening tissue and bone then it's adequate. However, there is some doubt if the .380 can do that when using expanding ammunition. Sufficient penetration & shot placement are the 2 most important factors. As long as she's comfortable & confident shooting it you're halfway there already! I use a couple of 9x18 Makarovs (a little more powerful than .380) for home (until I can reach the 12ga) and CCW and keep them stoked w/95gr FMJ. HTH...
Tomac
Tomac
Steelharp
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I could be wrong, but I think it was Cooper that said, "It's shot placement, not caliber. It's hard to argue with a .22 to the tear duct."
MICHAEL T
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It will work fine out of a gun the size of a Bersa and in May CorBon should have their new round out which address the penreration. Its little short barrell 380's that have real problem with peneration. I have a PPK/S on my hip at present ,loaded with CorBon 90grHP. Come join bersatalk.com 
Mr. Mysterious
Member
I carry a KT P32 a lot, so yeah, I'd carry a .380 when I get one.
I know that I wouldn't voluntarily be shot by a .380.
I know that I wouldn't voluntarily be shot by a .380.
Lobotomy Boy
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The Bersa is a nice gun to shoot, and remarkably accurate. It's thin and conceals well IWB when wearing shorts and a t-shirt, times when a bulkier gun like a Glock 26 or 30 could prove difficult to carry. If given a choice, I'd rather defend myself with a .45 ACP, but I'd much rather defend myself with a .380 than just my sharp wit.
Lobotomy Boy
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I remember seeing a court case on television in the 1980s in which a mobster who had flipped and was testifying against his old family. He described an attempted hit in which he had walked up to a guy sitting in his car and shot him in the side of the head at point blank range, emptying an entire magazine of 9mm into the target's melon. The prosecutor asked what happened next, and the mobster said, "He started his car and drove away."
My point here is that I wouldn't extrapolate conclusions based on isolated anecdotal incidents. Freak things do happen.
MrTuffPaws
Member
One thing you might find is that the blowback design of the 380s may have more felt recoil than a similar sized locking block 9mm.
dasmi
Member
If she likes shooting it, and can shoot it accurately, it's better than nothing. Yes, you could get something that would make a bigger, and deeper hole, but if she doesn't like carrying it, or can't shoot it, there's not much point.
cls12vg30
Member
I carry either .380 or 9mm Mak most of the time, with a P32 as backup. I feel very comfortable with .380. My standard loadout is a Magsafe in the chamber and top of the mag, followed by 3 Cor-bon's, with the rest of the mag FMJ's. Spare mag is also FMJ's.
I like the new .380 Corbon's, (the only .380 ammo I've seen marked "+P"), I have tested them at the range and not only are they noticeably hotter than normal .380 (easy to tell from report and recoil), they are also extremely accurate our of my Llama with a 4 1/2" barrel. My reasoning for keeping a Magsafe in the chamber and top of mag is both for safety and "shock factor". Magsafes, despite their lack of penetration, are loaded hotter than about anything else out there. (They are even available in 7.62x25, those have been clocked at 2300 fps out of a CZ-52.
I have fired a couple from my CZ. I believe it.)
They're unlikely to hit any vital organ, but in a real-life situation I believe they would increase an opponents "shock factor" at being shot, and one can hope that this may be enough to end the situation. Follow those up with the Cor-bons, still quite hot but with better penetration. If the target is still on his feet after that, here come the FMJ's.
One-shot-stop statistics are okay for what they are, but they of course make the big assumption that in a life-or-death situation you would only shoot once. I am follow the school that anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice, and anything worth shooting twice is worth shooting "to the ground".
I like the new .380 Corbon's, (the only .380 ammo I've seen marked "+P"), I have tested them at the range and not only are they noticeably hotter than normal .380 (easy to tell from report and recoil), they are also extremely accurate our of my Llama with a 4 1/2" barrel. My reasoning for keeping a Magsafe in the chamber and top of mag is both for safety and "shock factor". Magsafes, despite their lack of penetration, are loaded hotter than about anything else out there. (They are even available in 7.62x25, those have been clocked at 2300 fps out of a CZ-52.
I have fired a couple from my CZ. I believe it.)They're unlikely to hit any vital organ, but in a real-life situation I believe they would increase an opponents "shock factor" at being shot, and one can hope that this may be enough to end the situation. Follow those up with the Cor-bons, still quite hot but with better penetration. If the target is still on his feet after that, here come the FMJ's.
One-shot-stop statistics are okay for what they are, but they of course make the big assumption that in a life-or-death situation you would only shoot once. I am follow the school that anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice, and anything worth shooting twice is worth shooting "to the ground".
ArmsAkimber
Member
I second cls12vg30's comments on Cor-Bon's .380+P round. It's very hot. I don't think there is a SAAMI specification for .380+P, but I trust Cor-Bon to know what they're doing. It hurts to shoot more than a few rounds of it out of my Guardian 380, where Magtech Gold JHP or Wal-Mart Ball (forget which brand) is quite tolerable. NAA has told me that the Cor-Bon round is A-OK for the Guardian 380.
I'd like to see some gel tests on Silver Bear JHP .380acp ammo. It's loaded hot, too. It has a mean-looking jacket, which extends slightly beyond the lead core. The jacket might even be made of copper-washed mild steel.
I'd like to see some gel tests on Silver Bear JHP .380acp ammo. It's loaded hot, too. It has a mean-looking jacket, which extends slightly beyond the lead core. The jacket might even be made of copper-washed mild steel.
Missouri Mule
Member
It depends on the intended use. I have freinds who carry a Keltec P3AT .380 simply because it is budget priced. I carry mine because I like it, usually as a back up. There are times when it is my primary simply because the clothes I am wearing make it the easiest to carry concealed.
My personal choice as a minimal primary caliber is 9mm in my Kahr PM9.
My first choice is always .45 ACP.
To answer your question., yes and no. If the .380 is all your wife can comfortably and accurately shoot then yes. It is still better than a .22, imo or nothing at all. If the cost is a genuine real concern then again yes.
If your wife can handle a larger caliber pistol like a mini Glock or Kahr with a larger and or more potent caliber then no. Assuming of course again that its not a monetary drain.
I don't want to offend, as everyone has their own reason for choosing the weapon they us. It really is a very personal choice.
I don't want to come across as a gun snob because I don't think I am.
Just buy and shoot what you want and can afford.
I happen to own, shoot and CCW at times two different $115 Makarovs.
Also, A well placed shot(s) with a .380 is better than a badly placed or missed shot(s) from a .45.
Good luck .... and practice, practice, practice!
My personal choice as a minimal primary caliber is 9mm in my Kahr PM9.
My first choice is always .45 ACP.
To answer your question., yes and no. If the .380 is all your wife can comfortably and accurately shoot then yes. It is still better than a .22, imo or nothing at all. If the cost is a genuine real concern then again yes.
If your wife can handle a larger caliber pistol like a mini Glock or Kahr with a larger and or more potent caliber then no. Assuming of course again that its not a monetary drain.
I don't want to offend, as everyone has their own reason for choosing the weapon they us. It really is a very personal choice.
I don't want to come across as a gun snob because I don't think I am.
Just buy and shoot what you want and can afford.
I happen to own, shoot and CCW at times two different $115 Makarovs.
Also, A well placed shot(s) with a .380 is better than a badly placed or missed shot(s) from a .45.
Good luck .... and practice, practice, practice!
Assuming this story isn't entirely apocryphal, I have a very good explanation.
First of all, let me say that the idea that 90 grains at 1000fps won't go through one of the thinnest bones in the body is absolute bunk. This kind of stuff is only accepted as truth by people who WANT to believe it.
BUT, there ARE situations where bullets SEVERELY underpenetrate, and there is a very good reason in many cases why that happens. To explain, let me tell a short story I read some time back in a news article.
A married couple had an argument which finally reached the point that the woman retrieved a .38 revolver and emptied it at the man. He was hit several times but was unhurt, and one of the bullets which hit the glass of a nearby window failed to break it.
So, do we immediately start posting on the internet that a .38 revolver bullet won't penetrate glass? I guess that's what some would do. It turns out that the couple was quite elderly and the revolver was one that they had purchased AND loaded MANY decades earlier. The ammo (which may have been old way back when) had degraded to the point that the bullets barely had enough oomph to exit the barrel.
Ammo is degraded by exposure to heat, cold and moisture. Long exposure increases the effect. I recently talked to a local gun shop owner and asked him about some ammo he had that I had not seen on the shelves in many years. Turns out he had been storing it in a metal shed with no climate control for well upwards of 10 years. In TEXAS where the summer temperatures in a metal shed might climb well past 120 degrees, the humidity is oppressive and the winter temps sometimes reach below freezing. I didn't buy any, but I wonder how many people will...
Now consider that many of those folks fit into the group that buys a gun and a box of ammo and figures they're set for life. The gun gets loaded and goes under the seat of the pickup truck and stays there. Then, 20 years later after going through the extreme temperature swings experienced by a car in this area, the guy pulls it out to use it and blames the caliber because the ammo doesn't penetrate enough.
Thanks for the replies. She has shot my Ruger P94 once and did okay with it. Considering it was the first time she had shot a handgun she did pretty good. With practice I believe she could handle 9mm. The price was good on the Bersa though.Seems most 9mm's are more exspensive. I still haven't ruled out a revolver as one may be better suited for her because of the simplicity. I'll have to see if I can borrow my Dad's .38 for her to try as I don't own any revolvers.
carebear
Member
Good job on letting her try. I'd get the Bersa no matter what. at those prices, it's a heck of a "just to have" gun for the money.
)Lobotomy, Those sternum cases I just recently heard about . My experience with the 380 goes back many years now and involved shooting woodchucks and feral dogs with various handgun cartridges. From those tests , the 9mm did much better than the 380 and the 45 better than the 9mm.I would not like to have to defend my life with a 380 especially when there are rounds that are much better.When we have small good quality 9mm pistols such as the Kahr ,the 380 is obsolete.Carry the most powerfull round that you can handle well ,the life you save may be your own !
From 10 + years working LEO in Los Angeles, I can state from experience that I have seen plenty of instances where the 380 was adequate for the job. Of course, I prefer the 9mm or 45 acp, but have never felt underarmed with a 380. I have seen a lot of damage done by the round, and it is all the gun some people can handle. Sure beats harsh language.
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