Is 45acp fading away?

[Phaedrus/69]

If the 45ACP is fading away, it is due to sheer ignorance. It IS more effective than anything but a 357, according to research done by Greg Ellifritz. It takes almost 3 rounds of 9mm to be as effective as 2 rounds of 45ACP. So you would have to carry 50% more 9mm, and shoot 50% faster. It is so tolerant a round for reloading.

One of us is misremembering his meta-study. I recall that the difference between 9 & .45 was about .2 (two-tenths) of a round. The 9, .40 and .45 were all clustered very tightly with little to recommend one over another. All lagged dramatically behind the 12ga and "rifle" rounds. But I'll have to look at the study again.

 

[Nuclear]

The 45 was a few hundredths over 2 rounds, the 9 was 2.5, as I recall. Since we can’t shoot fractions of a round, the 45 would be 2 rounds per bad guy, the 9 would be 3 per bad guy.

But when you start looking at JHP expansion, the best 45 ends up about a quarter inch larger diameter than the best 9mm. The current research seems to indicate only the crush cavity (diameter of the round x penetration) on a handgun round counts, so I’m thinking a larger diameter x the same 12-18” diameter makes a difference.

I personally carry a 9, with an extended reload. If I could find a 45 that was equal in all other ways, aside from 2/3 the capacity, I would. Haven’t found it yet. Still looking, though.

 

[fxvr5]

The 45 was a few hundredths over 2 rounds, the 9 was 2.5, as I recall. Since we can’t shoot fractions of a round, the 45 would be 2 rounds per bad guy, the 9 would be 3 per bad guy.

I personally carry a 9, with an extended reload. If I could find a 45 that was equal in all other ways, aside from 2/3 the capacity, I would. Haven’t found it yet. Still looking, though.

If you're rounding off to whole numbers, the usual rules of rounding would round the 9mm statistic to 2 rounds.

Using the statistic you prefer, the Average number of rounds until incapacitation, there are much better calibers than the 45. Here's the numbers:
45 ACP = 2.08
9mm = 2.45

The other "better" calibers Average number of rounds until incapacitation are:
380 ACP = 1.76
357 Magnum (and SIG) = 1.70
44 Magnum = 1.71
38 Special = 1.87
32 ACP and 32 Long = 1.52
22 S,L,LR = 1.38

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power

 

[Nuclear]

You would have to shoot 6-7 bad guys before that 0.08 would make a difference, while you would only have to shoot 2-3 bad guys for that 0.45 to make a difference. I know which I would choose, but you are free to go with smaller diameter calibers & lower weight projectiles.

You left out my comment about JHP expansion when you quoted me, which reminds me of a time I was told not to use common sense or the laws of physics to make engineering decisions. But I will give you credit for putting in the link in to Greg Ellifritz’s stats & his write up, which I would encourage everyone to read and consider. At least until the next latest & greatest study is published.

 

[Jeff62]

Is 45acp fading away?


No. (If you’re asking because you are out of ammo let me know, I has extra)

 

[fxvr5]

You would have to shoot 6-7 bad guys before that 0.08 would make a difference, while you would only have to shoot 2-3 bad guys for that 0.45 to make a difference. I know which I would choose, but you are free to go with smaller diameter calibers & lower weight projectiles.

You left out my comment about JHP expansion when you quoted me, which reminds me of a time I was told not to use common sense or the laws of physics to make engineering decisions. But I will give you credit for putting in the link in to Greg Ellifritz’s stats & his write up, which I would encourage everyone to read and consider. At least until the next latest & greatest study is published.

You're cherry picking the data to fit your preferred caliber, ignoring data for other calibers and making false statements along the way.

That includes your statement, "It (the 45) IS more effective than anything but a 357." In fact, the 380 ACP, 44 Magnum, 38 Special, 32 ACP and 32 Long and 22 S,L,LR are all more effective than a 45 when comparing your Average number of rounds until incapacitation values, not just anything but a 357. This is why people should ignore your posts. You can't be trusted to present facts, only your biases which are contradicted by the very data you cite.

 

[brutus51]

All guns are tools and each has a purpose.
For me personally the 45ACP is perfect for home defense, why, because in the middle of the night it's muzzle flash won't blind you and the indoor report won't blow out your eardrums.
On the other hand for outside the home carry I prefer a lightweight commander in 38Super because of the weight, a little more capacity, in my handloads near .357magnum performance.
In the woods a 40Super would do but I prefer a 45colt with warm handloads.
For handgun hunting a 44 Mag is hard to beat and lets not forget the lowly .22LR for smaller game and just plain old fun plinking.
Then there's the weather, when it's to hot out for a full size 1911 I'm not adverse to carrying a 38 special, 9mm or even a 380.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[shafter]

These studies hurt my brain. There are too many variables to be applicable to the real world. Every attacker is different. Size, musculature, fat, mindset such as rage and aggression, determination, intoxication; what they're wearing, and angle they're standing at, etc all play a role and its different in every situation.

 

[JR24]

These studies hurt my brain. There are too many variables to be applicable to the real world. Every attacker is different. Size, musculature, fat, mindset such as rage and aggression, determination, intoxication; what they're wearing, and angle they're standing at, etc all play a role and its different in every situation.

And that's not taking the skillset and training of the defender either.

 

[DR505]

I hope the .45 ACP isn't fading away....I have too much fun with it: