Is Fluid Film compatible with BP?

[BCRider]

I've become a bit of a convert to Fluid Film for wiping down my smokeless guns recently. I like the fact that it doesn't easily wipe away from handling like thin films of other sorts of oils do.

I've also discovered that it's pretty darn good as a lubrication for slides and bolts. My Rossi 92 has not been so slick to lever as when I spritzed a little FF into the works. It's even slicker than with good oil on most parts and a little synthetic grease on the bolt slides and hammer face.

Then I read that FF is primarily based on lanolin. Which makes me wonder if it might be BP compatible. Running a Google search for "fluid film black powder" turns up some suggestions in the short notes that some have found it to work but when I click on the link to find that page it either comes up dead or the phrase which led me to the link simply isn't there at all.

So any thoughts or findings on Fluid Film and black powder?

It really works slick on the 1860 arbors. But I don't want the gap blast to turn the stuff into glue.

 

[jgh4445]

The MSDS ( now SDS) says it contains Liquified Petroleum Gas and Petroleum Oils. Petroleum products don't mix too well with BP I have always been taught. It is also listed as a mild skin and eye irritant. The user is also cautioned not to mix with other chemicals.

 

[BCRider]

OK, first time back to the 'puter since posting this. In between I cleaned a barrel from the shoot yesterday. Sorry but it was well after midnight by the time I did the shotgun, rifle, and two of the four C&B guns me and another fella used yesterday.

For giggles and to learn more about the stuff I sprayed it down the dirty bore and then ran a patch through the stuff. It went from a powdery buildup to a flakey crusty buildup that pulled and clawed at the patch.

Dunking in the usual hot soapy water and brushing it clean took a couple of passes to wash out the FF or the crustiness and then it washed up like normal.

So it would seem that your thoughts from reading the MSDS are right and this isn't good.

It was worth testing though. After all if you look up the MSDS for Ballistol you'll find the exact same source for the product. Namely Petroleum oils. But then so is the perfectly edible "mineral oil" we buy at the drug store. Well, ingestable at least since the mineral oil isn't digestible by our system.

Anyhow it was an interesting trial. But I guess I'll stick to Ballistol for long term use and Canola oil for shooting day duty.

 

[Skinny 1950]

Lanolin or "wool-oil/grease" is not a petroleum product, it come from sheep and is a known emulsifier ie: allows water to mix with oil (petro) it is used in Dillion case lube mixed with isopropyl alcohol
I would not be too surprised to find that Lanolin was used for firearms back in the old days, maybe for rust protection or lube. It doesn't stink as bad as bear-grease and sheep don't have big claws and teeth.

 

[BCRider]

I gather that they come pretty close to it when being sheared though....

One way or the other I'm going to continue using it as my internal lube of choice for my Rossi. The lever cycling has never been smoother and so effortless.

 

[Armored farmer]

I keep FF on the shelf here in my farm shop.
It has made its' way into the innards of my flintlock and caplocks several times. Mostly just on the lock mechanisms though. I use Bore Butter down the bore.
FF is good stuff with many uses.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Not really sure how you classify FF and Balistol as "the same stuff". FF is made from "liquified petroleum gas" and does not emulsify in water (according to the MSDS), while Balistol is medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, alcohol, Benzyl Acetate, and vegetable oil, and was first formulated to work with breech loading firearms that fired black powder loaded cartridges.

LD

 

[BCRider]

Not the same at all. Just that they both came from basic crude oil originally.

That bit came from a past thread about Ballistol that said it was originally made from coal oil. But that somewhere along the way that had changed to using mineral oil produced from basic crude oil. The irony being that we go on about not using petrochemical oils yet Ballistol has some petrochemical origin oil in it.

 

[mykeal]

Yes, and everything that's alive has some elemental carbon in it.

We do go on about the inadvisability of using petroleum based cleaners/solvents in black powder guns. We should probably remember to add the qualifier that this only applies to petroleum based products that are considered to be low distillates, and that high distillates (of which mineral oil is just one) are ok to use. The distinction, however, is lost on most people, so it would only get more confusing.

The facts are that the temperature of combustion of black powder is too low to completely burn the low distillate petroleum products; this incomplete burning results in, for want of a better term, tar, not a fun substance to clean out of your pristine, shiny barrel. High distillate petroleum products, however, are likely to be completely consumed at the temperature of combustion of black powder, so no tars are formed.

It's true that just using the term 'petroleum products' doesn't tell an accurate story, but I'm not sure adding the 'low distillate' qualifier would help much. Perhaps we should just say, "Don't use petroleum based cleaners/solvents in your black powder gun unless they are mineral oil based." Would that help any?

It's also true that you CAN use low distillate petroleum based cleaners/solvents in black powder guns IF you completely clean them (that is, remove the cleaner/solvent) before shooting them. That results in the complete story being reduced to the phrase, " Do not use petroleum based cleaners/solvents in your black powder gun unless they are mineral oil based or you are careful to completely clean out the cleaner/solvent before shooting it again."

No wonder we just shorten it to, "Don't use petroleum products in cleaning your gun."

 

[Kernel]

I've been using Fluid Film on my black powder firearms for over 20 years. Never had a problem with rust. It's great stuff. IMO, one of the best, if not THE BEST, BP lube you can use.

It's mostly lanolin - natural sheep's wool oil. You gotta understand what an MSDS is. It NOT a list everything in the can. It's a list of the hazardous materials. Lanolin is not hazardous, so it's not even listed on the MSDS. In fact, lanolin is so benign there are edible forms of it used in the food industry. (To be clear - I do not endorse the eating of Fluid Film).

There are tiny trace amount of petrochemicals used in the aerosol version of Fluid Film. They're probably part of the propellant system. I wouldn't worry about them, since they are such a tiny fraction of what's in the can and I think they mostly evaporate in a few seconds.

The worse thing I can say about Fluid Film is it doesn't smell very good. Think wet sheep, and you get the idea.

The other bad thing about Fluid Film is, since it's all natural, it's not the best at ultra low temperatures. So, if you're one to go BP shooting when it's -20 bellow zero, you might want to use a synthetic.

 

[BCRider]

Thanks Kernal. That helps a lot.

What about where it actually mixes with the BP fouling? Have you noticed that it ends up being sticky to clean away or does it mix and wipe off easily?

For example, I'm a huge fan of Canola cooking oil for spot lubricating the front of the cylinder arbor after each cylinder of shots on my cap and ball revolvers. The Canola actually frees up any stickiness from the powder fouling. Would you expect FF to do much the same or what do you think it would do?

 

[Kernel]

The fouling wipes off pretty easy. I have a 1851 that I shot for over a decade and never once fully disassembled or used a drop of water on it. Only Fluid Film. Which, admittedly, I slathered it in freely. It remains rust free to this day.

 

[BCRider]

Thanks Kernal, that sealed it.

I'm going to use it more from here on in as I really like the way it coats the exterior of the guns with a film that even when wiped down fairly briskly still leaves a film that does not wipe away from finger contact.

 

[BCRider]

Follow up report.

I just came home from shooting my C&B guns in a big match. The fluid film proved that it mixes with the fouling and stays liquid. No sticky tar like gumming up at all was found.

During cleaning just as a test I tried wiping away fouling stains with some FF on a paper towel. It easily softened and cleaned the fouling away. It's not a substitute for water and a scrub but it could be used as a cleaner in a pinch if no water was available.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Ballistol is the gold standard for BP shooting.

I have NEVER had a BP gun rust up on me after a coat of ballistol. Wipe off any excess before you head to the range and you should have 0 problems with it.

 

[303load]

So what doesn't ballistol work with?

 

[BCRider]

I've still got and use the Ballistol. I got the fluid film for another use and have been trying it as an option. So the FF was asked about and reported on as an alternative.

I'll always use Ballistol for inside the chambers, bores and on the nipples as it can be wiped off to a thinner film that won't affect the caps or powder. FF is just too "sticky" for that application.

Where the FF shines is that it IS more sticky and stays on the metal better and lubes the rams and action much better. My triggers are noticeably slicker with a spritz of FF in the action compared to Ballistol. But I had been concerned that when mixed with the BP and cap fouling that it may want to go all tar like. Turns out there is no worry about that.

So I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone toss their Ballistol for FF. But for anyone with a gritty or hard trigger pull FF will make the gun feel a little more slick. And it is also much more tenacious as an outer wipe down protectant.

 

[mykeal]

So what doesn't ballistol work with?

I wouldn't put it on my pancakes.

Other than that, it's always worked with everything I've used.