Is Iraq headed toward civil war?

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Balog

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Iraq May Be Slipping Into Civil War
Mon Feb 16, 7:56 AM ET

By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Sunni politicians speak angrily of U.S. bias toward their Shiite rivals. Kurds are more outspoken in demanding self rule — if not independence. And someone — perhaps al-Qaida, perhaps Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) loyalists — killed more than 100 people in recent suicide bombings.

Rivalry and resentment among Iraq (news - web sites)'s ethnic and religious groups have become much more pronounced since Saddam's ouster in April. And those tensions are rising as various groups jockey for position with the approaching June 30 deadline for Iraqis to retake power

The fault lines are emerging for a possible civil war.

Veteran U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, who just finished a visit to the country, pointedly warned Iraqi leaders they face "very serious dangers" if they do not put the interests of the nation ahead of those of their clans, tribes, ethnic groups and religious communities.

"I have appealed to the members of the Governing Council and to Iraqis in every part of Iraqi to be conscious that civil wars do not happen because a person makes a decision, 'Today, I'm going to start a civil war,'" Brahimi told a news conference on Friday at the end of a mission to discuss ways of setting up an empowered Iraqi government.

Brahimi, who helped mediate civil conflicts in Lebanon and Yemen, told Iraqis that civil wars erupt "because people are reckless, people are selfish, because people think more of themselves than they do of their country."

A senior U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, agreed that civil war was possible, citing conflicts that erupted in the former Yugoslavia and Soviet Union after the collapse of Communist authoritarian rule.

Even before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last March, some Western and Arab scholars predicted the country would plunge into civil war as soon as Saddam's totalitarian rule collapsed.

So far, many Iraqis insist they are determined to keep the peace, saying their nation is already worn down by three devastating wars since 1980, decades of dictatorship and nearly 13 years of crippling U.N. sanctions.

"We never fought each other," said Hamid al-Kafaai, spokesman for Iraq's Governing Council. "We are one nation and we will stay united."

However, unity has always proven difficult in Iraq, cobbled together from three separate Ottoman provinces by colonial Britain after World War I.

Saddam's Baath party held the rival clans, tribes, ethnic groups and religious communities together through a mixture of terror against its domestic enemies and patronage to those who remained loyal.

That formula held the nation together after Iraq's defeat in the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites) after Shiites and Kurds rose up, only to be crushed by Saddam's forces.

With Saddam gone, signs of social disintegration are emerging. The Shiites and Kurds believe they now have a historical opportunity to regain their rights — to the alarm of the Sunni Arabs.

Majority Shiites expect to translate their numbers — an estimated 60 percent of Iraq's 25 million people — into real political power.

The demands of their most influential spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, for an early election to choose a transitional legislature have pitted them against the Sunni Arab minority, who feel that such a ballot will further marginalize them.

The Sunni Arabs, bristling at the loss of their privileges under Saddam, have challenged the widely held view that the Shiites constitute a majority and accuse them of colluding with the Americans against them. Following Saturday's bloody attack against police and civil defense units in the Sunni stronghold Fallujah, rumors spread through the city that Shiite Muslim militiamen were responsible, although that seemed unlikely.

Sunni frustrations are behind the enduring anti-American insurgency in Baghdad and in Sunni-dominated areas to the north and west of the capital. Shiites have for the most part left the Americans in peace. The Shiite clerical leadership believes that it will inherit power as the Americans gradually withdraw.

"It flies in the face of Iraq's history of the past 80 years to imagine that the Sunnis will accept Shiite domination or allow them to rule," said Gareth Stansfield of the Institute of Arab & Islamic Studies at England's University of Exeter.

In a letter released by U.S. authorities Wednesday, an anti-American operative, believed to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, tells leaders of al-Qaida that turning the country's religious communities against one another is the best way to undermine U.S. policy in Iraq.

"The potential for a civil war is already in place," said Stansfield of Exeter University. "It does not need al-Qaida to encourage it."

The Kurds, believed to form 15-20 percent of the population, remain fixated on a single goal — preserving and expanding the self rule they have enjoyed in their northern regions since 1991.

Kurds are locked in a power struggle with Sunni Arabs over the limits of federalism in the new Iraq. Kurdish claims to Kirkuk have served to unite the oil-rich city's Arab and ethnic Turkish residents against them and have raised alarm bells here and in neighboring countries over the possible dismemberment of Iraq.

Worsening tensions come at a time of increased suicide attacks against Iraqis who cooperate with the U.S.-led coalition. Such attacks cast doubt on U.S. claims that Iraqi security forces can maintain order after the handover of sovereignty this summer.

Those doubts have encouraged key Iraqi groups to resist coalition demands to disband armed militias such as the Kurdish peshmergas, who fought with U.S. troops against Saddam's military last year, and the ????te Badr Brigade.

Moderate Islamic writer Fahmi Howeidi has warned the power transfer could provide the catalyst for civil war.

"The possibility of a civil war breaking out cannot be ruled out if the withdrawal goes ahead against this backdrop of a huge void in central authority," he wrote in a recent article published in the London-based, pan-Arab daily Asharq al-Awsat.
 
Whoa, hold the phone here. Everybody is talking about this like it's some future event. This is going on RIGHT NOW. My brother tells me that he hears gunfire constantly in Iraq, but it's not directed at him. It's the Sunnis and the Shi'a duking it out. Welcome to reality.
 
A lot of smart people (including me ;) ) have predicted it years before. I always supposed that this was the reason Bush sr. didn't finish Saddam Hussein off in the first Iraq war.

Iraq has always been an artificial state, created by its former colonial rulers. Its society has tribal structures and is divided by strong religious and ethnic frontiers. Only Saddam Husseins iron rule held it together in one piece.

The new Iraqi state will fall apart as soon as the coalition forces move out. And the Sunni people (who happen to be the minority) will most likely pay the price because Kurds and Shiites have not forgotten who was the ruling class and who was the underdog under Saddam.


Regards,

Trooper
 
sounds like Iraq needs a good civil war.

Why even get involved (hypothetically speaking), if mothers are blowing themselves up in crowds of people what can be done? Get the hell away from that part of the world.

Rome had an excellent solution for situations like this :D
 
You can't get away from them -- they come and visit us.

I hate to see it come, but I'm pretty sure there will be a civil war. I hope they can keep it inside their borders (Ha!) and that Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria will stay out of it (even bigger Ha!). :rolleyes:

Hopefully, what we've demonstrated in Iraq will serve as a threat to keep the other @ssholes out of the war.
 
While not an exact parallel, the Iraq situation is similar to that of the Balkans. The USSR "sat" on the warring ethnic and political groups, forcing them to not kill each other. We know what happened after the end of the USSR.

Hussein did much the same in Iraq, except that he and his controlling party did the killing. Others weren't allowed to enjoy their favorite pastime. (Pardon my cynicism.) Now, there are no "My way or die!" people in control of Iraq, and the factionalism could very well get out of hand.

Dicey times.

Art
 
Problem: if Turkey so much as suspects the Kurds will get their own chunk, they'll invade.

Fact: Turkey's abuses against their own Kurds have been horrendous, ranging from massacres not all that long ago to banning their language and writing (not just in schools - anywhere!).

It is impossible to overstate how disgusting the Turkish government's behavior to the Kurds has been, and that in turn has led to a small but determined rebel movement. A new "Kurdistan" state across the border in what was North Iraq would inevitably form a resource base for the Turkish Kurdistani rebellion.

Remember, Turkey is a NATO ally and a critical piece of US support.

SIGH.

If the Shiites get control, they'll abuse the hell out of the Sunnis. Both will abuse the Kurds as bad as the damn Turks do or worse.

There's no easy answers here, folks.
 
a somewhat linked article from Der Spiegel:

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/english/0,1518,286605,00.html

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the Coalition has friends in Iraq, and it has enemies that are unlikely to switch sides. The friends of the West - including the Kurds - need our support and are already grateful for what we have done for them (however that help came about). The time is rapidly approaching for the Coalition to encourage the Sunni regimes of the region to take a greater role in the "Sunni Triangle" while themselves concentrating on creating viable areas for the Shia and Kurdish populations to live in.

Jim, I would question the role of Turkey as a vital part of the NATO alliance. Theres no question that it was, in the days of the USSR, but its main usefulness now - airbases close to the Middle East - could be just as well performed by an independent, or autonomous, Kurdistan (which obviously would be closer).
 
Turkey and the Kurds, Shia and Sunni, many problems will arise. The US election driven timetable and the notion of Iraqification (i.e. Vietnamization) could really ingnite the powder keg. The upcoming troop rotation would be a great time for the STHF if you were an insurgent.
 
Ah, the Fertile Crescent... that spot in the middle east where the Sunnis from the South meet the Shiia from the Northeast... a veritable Garden of Eden I tell ya. What was once a buffer zone controlled by a strongman tyrant no longer in power thanks to Uncle Sam opening Pandora's Box all the way... Look out world, all kinds of interesting developments will follow.

Cain and Able all over again.

Several times over.

Turks, Kurds, Iranian and Iraqi Islamics, throw in the Saudis, a few Syrians, maybe an Egyptian or two and don't forget the Palestinians and Israelis or the Pakis and Indians... A whole Lot of Love over there. Can't ya feel it bubbling up like Spring in the Air.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

I'll bet ol' John Kerry could get us outta this mess with honor by throwing somebody elses medals over the wall and saying that War is a Bad Thing. Predict that once GWB is re-elected Iran's nuclear program comes under fire just as a topper to that particular tossed salad. Then... we can get the North/South Korea matter fixed... or started up again. Darn that Axis of Evil anyway.

But Civil War in Iraq? Why would you think that?

Please pardon my cynicism this morning. Gotta take my meds...
 
I read a couple of weeks ago that the US is officially throwing the Kurdistan Workers Party into the "Terrorist Organization" category, to kiss ??? with the Turks.

Gee, won't the Kurds like that? And won't that make them like us?:rolleyes:

A boy scout troop of teenagers could plan a post-war rule of Iraq better than this.
 
Civil War is the natural order of things over there. Can anyone really think Jews and Palestinians will kiss and make up when co-religionists of the Islamic faith want to massacre each other?
 
Ah yes, religeon and ethnic background. The two dominant areas for killing each other. What I wouldn't give for about ten thousand people that had the same outlook I have, a great big pile of squad automatic weapons and lots of ammo. Wonder how many we would have to kill before the thought or getting along happened? The dandy part is we could start right here in the United States.
 
What I wouldn't give for about ten thousand people that had the same outlook I have, a great big pile of squad automatic weapons and lots of ammo.
Ok, well, The High Road's membership total at the time of this post is 9,284, so that's pretty close.

I've provided you with your people, so I guess it's up to you to provide the SAWs and ammo. :D

-BP
 
BigG,nothing tribal about it. I'm just way past real tired of people thinking just because they are different they are special. How many recources have been wasted over the I'm better than you BS?
 
:D Hi Bruce H. Them vs. Us is as old as Adam. I think I would be one of your 10,000 btw. :eek: Cheers! :D
 
:D You would think that in the time since Adam that we would have learned something. :D Bigotry and hatred pays the bills for lots of people. Meanwhile we wait for civilization. My patience are approaching the two buzzards on the limb in the desert poster :D
 
Hey, y'all, watch this!

Meanwhile, in a related development
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC
:neener:
 
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