Is there a "better" concealable 9mm than the PM9?

[Girodin]

A double feed is a very different type of malfunction essentially there is a round in the chamber and a second round trying to be fed in behind it.

My experience over an array of pistols is that this does a fairly good job of causing the mag to be locked up. By pulling the slide back the pressure holding everything in place is released. The slide is locked back so that one is free to use their hands to strip the magazine out while that pressure is released. One might be able to hold the slide back and hit the slide release and shake the mag out. It is going to be harder one handed. It is probably harder with a heal release. One handed and with a heal release I imagine is even more difficult still. Perhaps there is a technique I am unaware of though. Is this the type of jam you are saying the mag still falls easily? If so I wonder if that is typical for the R9/RS9.

One would think that those carrying the R9/RS9 every day would have done this drill a sufficient number of times to be able to give some insight. If not perhaps some of the posters on this thread would set up a double feed (with snap caps) and try clearing it, and also doing it one handed, I would be interested in the results. This is the type of drill that should be practiced fairly regularly.

The slide stop is the main reason I advise the LCP over the P3AT. I'm surprised how often people think the slide stop is a pointless feature because it has no last round feature.

 

[jetboater]

I agree double feeds and FTF at two different animals-- that's why I addressed double feeds in my R9 in post #71 and FTFs in post #73.
the only light strikes I've ever had have been with Hornaday Critical Defense. Hornaday concedes they've had to put different brands of primers in their ammo during this shortage and some of them have hard primers.
Other than that, everything else shoots fine in my R9s
The R9 probably isn't for everyone as it has some quirks but they're worth dealing with for me to get a 9mm in the smallest package available.
You may not come to the same conclusion but that's why there are so many brands of guns out there-- we all buy what we like so they keep making a bunch of different ones. My opinion is my opinion and I don't know what's the most important things in a gun are to you so I really can't knock anyone else's choices.
For me, the R9 works well-- that's why I have 3 of them now. 2 I shoot and one safe queen.
I do think all the OPs choices are good guns and any would serve the purpose but they're all a little different

 

[Girodin]

I agree double feeds and FTF at two different animals-- that's why I addressed double feeds in my R9 in post #71 and FTFs in post #73.

I just wanted to make sure I was following and we were discussing the same thing.

As to the light strikes I figured it was probably just a specific ammo issue as that seems to be the typical experience with the R9.

The R9 probably isn't for everyone as it has some quirks but they're worth dealing with for me to get a 9mm in the smallest package available.
You may not come to the same conclusion but that's why there are so many brands of guns out there-- we all buy what we like so they keep many a bunch of different ones. My opinion is my opinion and I don't know what's the most important things in a gun are to you so I really can't knock anyone else's choices.

Correct. IMO it is worth fully flushing out and discussing what the quirks of a particular gun are. If not how else is one to make an informed decision if the firearm suits their needs and desires. Too many people take a discussion of what trade off and short comings exist with something to be bashing. I don't imagine reasonable people have issues with differences of informed opinions or that there is not room for reasonable people to come to different conclusions. Those opinions/conclusions ought to be informed. Frank discussion helps to achieve that IMO. Personally, I don't see fact based discussion such as how the lack of a slide stop affects the manual of arms or fact based discussion about actual ballistics of a 9x19 round out the R9 as "bashing."

Further I find comments such as "its a great gun" or "it works for me" to be of very little value with out qualify why its a great gun (what is the measure of greatness) or what working for you means. As stated "I don't know what's the most important things in a gun are to you so I really can't knock anyone else's choices." It also means you cannot make a suggestion. This is why to me it is important to delve into the details a bit. Its not to be argumentative, bash or put things down.

 

[W L Johnson]

I wish I was a more eloquent writer like some of you

 

[harmon rabb]

Correct. IMO it is worth fully flushing out and discussing what the quirks of a particular gun are. If not how else is one to make an informed decision if the firearm suits their needs and desires. Too many people take a discussion of what trade off and short comings exist with something to be bashing. I don't imagine reasonable people have issues with differences of informed opinions or that there is not room for reasonable people to come to different conclusions. Those opinions/conclusions ought to be informed. Frank discussion helps to achieve that IMO. Personally, I don't see fact based discussion such as how the lack of a slide stop affects the manual of arms or fact based discussion about actual ballistics of a 9x19 round out the R9 as "bashing."

Further I find comments such as "its a great gun" or "it works for me" to be of very little value with out qualify why its a great gun (what is the measure of greatness) or what working for you means. As stated "I don't know what's the most important things in a gun are to you so I really can't knock anyone else's choices." It also means you cannot make a suggestion. This is why to me it is important to delve into the details a bit. Its not to be argumentative, bash or put things down

amen!!

i'll give an honest opinion of any gun i own. i'll point out the negative aspects of even the guns i love.

 

[jetboater]

Girodin--I agree with your comments.
To further clarify the double feed issue, if the mag is hard to release, I just swing my right hand around and leave my thumb behind the grip and pull the slide back with my other 4 fingers enough to release the pressure--the gun is small enough that it's an easy thing to do (though admittedly not as easy as it would be with a slide release) I carry R9s and both a Seecamp 32 and 380---none of which have slide releases so I'm comfortable doing it in the rare occasions when I have to--I only use one hand to release and pull the mag out all the time so that hand just does what it's trained to do.

What I was trying to imply in my post was that I can and will give opinions (like we all should so forums like this continue to be as useful as they are) but I don't think folks should knock another's choices with blanket statements (don't think you do--you said what I was trying say to better than I did and I agree with you)
We all see comments like "pistol XX is sh**" or (like another actual thread) "Hornaday Critical Defense sucks". It may very well "suck" for what the poster is trying to use it for or in the gun the poster is using it in but in general, it probably doesn't suck (in fact, it's my everyday carry ammo in my HKs even though my R9s won't fire it consistently so I could also say it "sucks" but only in relation to my R9)
I was trying to be clear as to why I thought my R9 was a great gun for me by giving lots of pros/cons on it in earlier posts as I realize statements like that without context are useless---maybe I need to be even clearer in the future.

thanks!

 

[Girodin]

I was trying to be clear as to why I thought my R9 was a great gun for me by giving lots of pros/cons on it in earlier posts as I realize statements like that without context are useless---maybe I need to be even clearer in the future.

No, I think your comments have added greatly to the discussion and the insight you have provided is surely appreciated. I know I appreciate it; although I've had some experience with Rohrbaughs it is minuscule compared to others (and even more importantly there is nothing that makes my opinion per se better than that of someone else).

 

[jetboater]

thanks!