Is There a Premium FMJ 9mm Round?

[HGM22]

Is there a FMJ 9mm round that is made to a higher spec than the normal "range blaster ammo"? Or at least are there higher quality 9mm practice rounds over others?

I thought Speer Lawman FMJ was supposed to be like their premium defense ammunition, but with a FMJ instead of a Gold Dot. True?

 

[Warp]

Speer Lawman is an extremely high quality FMJ (TMJ) round. It is hotter, cleaner, and more reliable than much of the cheap practice FMJ you grab off the shelf somewhere like Walmart. If you are after a premium FMJ you will definitely be pleased with Lawman.

There are other good ones too...perhaps Sellier and Bellot, IMI, RWS Geco, Fiocchi...but given the option I would just go with Lawman. It's very good ammo, made in Idaho

 

[wild cat mccane]

Gego has steel. Hit it with a magnet.

Lawman and S&B always get high marks for being hot and clean.

I like Lawman because it is TMJ. TMJ is typically is less accurate due to construction. However, this does not hold true with Lawman.

 

[Warp]

Gego has steel. Hit it with a magnet.

Lawman and S&B always get high marks for being hot and clean.

I like Lawman because it is TMJ. TMJ is typically is less accurate due to construction. However, this does not hold true with Lawman.

Some of the Geco has a bitmetal jacket that is slightly magnetic, yes. That is worth noting, but doesn't change the fact that it is good ammo.

Lawman and then S&B were the first two I listed because they do always get high marks, particularly for being hot and burning clean. No accuracy or reliability complaints either. And I'm told the cases reload fine/well.

 

[valnar]

IMI Samson stuff is very good. If I recall, it was loaded somewhere between regular and +P. NATO spec'ed instead of SAAMI.

 

[JDR]

Black Hills 115 gr FMJ 9mm is really good, very accurate, but expensive for 9mm range ammo, and BH only provides ammo with the 115 gr. bullet. I prefer 124 gr. FMJ 9mm, and I like the Winchester NATO rounds, and I like the Federal AE's.

 

[psyopspec]

Higher quality in what sense? Generally the answer will be that, yes, someone out there wants to sell you ammo at an inflated price point and would happily call it higher quality or any other number of vague terms to make that happen.

 

[Warp]

Higher quality in what sense? Generally the answer will be that, yes, someone out there wants to sell you ammo at an inflated price point and would happily call it higher quality or any other number of vague terms to make that happen.

Huh?

Explain how this is an "inflated price point"

http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-round-box-9mm-luger-speer-lawman-115-grain-fmj-ammo-53615

$226 for 1,000 rounds, shipped.

That's less expensive than you can probably find brass case 9mm at Walmart, and barely more than Aluminum case from Walmart.

Higher quality in what sense? Does hotter (higher velocity and more recoil), cleaner burning (less smoke, less leftover residue), more consistent (shot to shot recoil and velocity), more reliable (fewer if any bad rounds, fewer malfunctions), count as higher quality?

 

[pblanc]

I would agree that Speer Lawman seems to be one of the "better" factory 9mm FMJs. I have also had good luck with Federal American Eagle and PMC. I usually prefer shooting 124gr to 115gr and the Winchester NATO load has been very consistent for me.

I have had acceptable results with a whole bunch of 9mm FMJ ammo including Sellier & Bellot, Geco, Prvi Parizan, Blazer Brass, Remington UMC, Fiocchi, Magtech, Monarch brass (actually PPU), and Winchester white box. But what I have observed with some of the cheaper stuff is inconsistent quality.

I recently bought four boxes of Prvi Partizan (PPU) 115gr ammo that was underpowered and failed to reliably cycle the slides on two Beretta 9mm pistols. And I have shot a whole bunch of that stuff in the past without issue. I had a similar problem with Sumbro 9mm ammo. That type of experience makes me reluctant to buy anything but the better known brands in large quantity. I have heard a number of people complain about Fiocchi ammo recently, as well as the Perfecta stuff sold by Walmart.

 

[psyopspec]

Hey Warp, hope your day's going well.

I was responding to the OP, not to any of the subsequent posts about Speer Lawmen or any other brand, with the spirit of my post being to define what "premium FMJ" would be. For example, for training and practice I go with SG Ammo or Freedom munitions TMJ/FMJ for ~.20 per round. Premium isn't an adjective most would ascribe to this type of ammo. However, I load it in my gun. It goes bang. If I do my part, the bullet goes where I want it to go. Now, if someone secretly swapped in a magazine of Acme Premium FMJ rounds, I can't fathom an appreciable difference; so long as I apply the fundamentals and the round goes off when the trigger is pulled and strikes where intended, what have I gained from shooting Acme?

If Speer FMJ is premium ammunition, what makes it so? And indeed, .22 per is much better than my area Wal-marts, but I haven't paid those prices in years.

TL; DR: In lieu of an actual definition of "premium FMJ" with observable differences, the best I can guess is that anyone who says they have such a thing is probably trying to sell it to you, and probably at a higher price-after all, it's premium (whatever that means).

 

[Warp]

Now, if someone secretly swapped in a magazine of Acme Premium FMJ rounds, I can't fathom an appreciable difference

You should try it, then. Take your 20 cent per round freedom munitions and then take Speer Lawman, load up mags that are top half one bottom half the other, and have someone shoot them, see what they notice. Have them load a mag the same way, and you shoot them.

It won't be hard to tell

 

[horsemen61]

I like the lawman ammo myself

 

[GRIZ22]

I like WW NATO spec 9mm. It's not expensive but I can't remember an ammo related malfunction in about 20 years of using it. That includes a couple of hundred thousand used when I was a LE firearms instructor.

 

[Bobson]

I like WW NATO spec 9mm. It's not expensive but I can't remember an ammo related malfunction in about 20 years of using it.

Same here. People seem to dislike WWB, but I've never, ever had an issue with WWB 9mm NATO. In fact, it's my preferred plinking ammo (as far as what I can get locally).

I've used Lawman before, and it is indeed fine ammo, but I've never seen it locally, and can't bring myself to spend $225 on a bulk order of target ammo, even if it is a good price. I'm only paying a couple cents more per round, anyway, and my time is limited enough that I only shoot a couple hundred rounds every few months.

 

[kBob]

I do wish Federal would reintroduce the 1980 Hornady 124 grain FMJ TC. Now that was a "ball round" I could have gotten behind.

That was the bullet that USAF said was as good as the .45 ACP FMJ RN 230 grain ball when they were looking at the Beretta 92 before full adoption.

Some suggested that a TC verses a RN was not a fair fight.

Hornady also made a FMJ TC in .45/ 230 grain for the .45 ACP and I liked those as well.....outside the USAF gun folks in SanAntonio I must have been the only fan of it in either caliber.

I believe someone offers a .380 FMJ TC these days but I am unaware of a commercial 9x19 mm wit h it.

In and before WWI the Germans issued a 124 grain FMJ TC. I believe Hornady's later model had a larger meplat.

I can not say a thing about Geco these days but it was my GOTO hardball 9x19mm in the early 1980's in Europe. It always made my CZ75, P7 and P1(P38) very happy.

-kBob

 

[wild cat mccane]

Premium is hot, clean, and accurate to me. All of that also has to be done consistently.

Lawman does that for me. Lawman also has the great advantage of less lead vapor given the TMJ. I know some people don't care about science or their health, but lead is a proven behavior/neurological/carcinogenic poison at any level. No thanks.

 

[browningguy]

In lieu of an actual definition of "premium FMJ" with observable differences, the best I can guess is that anyone who says they have such a thing is probably trying to sell it to you, and probably at a higher price-after all, it's premium (whatever that means).

Whatever that means should mean it's loaded more accurately, cases and load charges are more uniform, bullet weights are more uniform. If someone is a decent shot they will see a difference with a quality gun between shooting WWB and Black Hills for example. If you think "quality" means it goes bang, then shoot whatever you want. And when I say "quality gun" I mean a well built pistol designed to shoot accurately, Six X series, some of the S&W custom shop guns, Les Baer, etc.

 

[Rock185]

I have used the Lawman ammo. Good stuff that does seem to duplicate the velocity of non +P duty ammo. Actually, recent chronographed velocity of the Lawman 147 practice ammo was higher than the Federal 147 +P HST duty ammo in both pistol and carbine length barrels. My "higher quality" range ammo for years though has been the Winchester 124 grain NATO ammo. More recently I have also been using the IMI 124 grain NATO 9MM. These RN ball rounds are sealed at the case mouth and primer. Velocity in various semi-auto pistols. revolvers and carbines is higher than most commercial ammo of the same bullet weight. The IMI NATO is the warmer of the two by about 3 - 5%. The NATO ammo functions reliably in every type of 9MM I have used it in. This would include various manufacturers' 9MM 1911 type pistols, with their heavier slides, which reportedly suffer failure extract, eject or lock back on empty with some lighter loadings of both factory and reloaded ammo. No issues like that using the Win. or IMI NATO ammunition.......ymmv

 

[Water-Man]

Black Hills.

 

[MIL-DOT]

...... I have heard a number of people complain about Fiocchi ammo recently, as well as the Perfecta stuff sold by Walmart.

Where are you hearing compliants about Fiocchi? I just did a search, and the most recent complaints i could find were a couple years old, and those were among a lot more people saying it was good stuff.
I've never had an issue with it, both the US and Italian made, going back 3 decades. If their quality-control has been slipping, I can't find anything on it.
(BTW, I've also shot a few boxes of the Fiocchi-made Perfecta, in 9mm,45 and 223, and had no issues, but I have seen a lot of complaints on it.)

 

[pblanc]

I cannot recall which forum or forums I read of complaints regarding Fiocchi ammo. They were recent posts. I am not going to do a search, but if I happen upon them and remember to do so, I will cite references here.

I have used Fiocchi branded ammo as well and have not experienced any problems with it. But then, I had shot thousands of rounds of PPU (Prvi Partizan) 9mm ammo in the past without any issues until I bought 200 bad rounds a month or so ago.

 

[Pipe Smoker]

There's Federal Guard Dog. EFMJ – expanding FMJ. It expands even if it hits drywall – hollow points won't – so less penetration through drywall. Nickle plated cases for more reliable extraction.

 

[Warp]

I cannot recall which forum or forum I read of complaints regarding Fiocchi ammo. They were recent posts. I am not going to do a search, but if I happen upon them and remember to do so, I will cite references here.

I have used Fiocchi branded ammo as well and have not experienced any problems with it. But then, I had shot thousands of rounds of PPU (Prvi Partizan) 9mm ammo in the past without any issues until I bought 200 bad rounds a month or so ago.

I have seen them too. It may very well have been THR. But mostly I see positive reviews and I remember seeing them because it was unusual. It was enough I didn't buy any, but then again Lawman was in stock at SGAmmo so I didn't have to go to plan B. Plan B for me, for quality/premium FMJ range/training 9mm ammo, if no lawman, would be IMI. But that's hard to find at good prices, Wideners seems to be out of stock or too expensive recently. PPU, perhaps, then, although it is noticeably less warm.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I cannot recall which forum or forum I read of complaints regarding Fiocchi ammo. They were recent posts. I am not going to do a search, but if I happen upon them and remember to do so, I will cite references here.

I have used Fiocchi branded ammo as well and have not experienced any problems with it. But then, I had shot thousands of rounds of PPU (Prvi Partizan) 9mm ammo in the past without any issues until I bought 200 bad rounds a month or so ago.

OK, fair enough. Thanks for getting back to me.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

what is the goal here?

Accuracy? clean burning? penetration?

UtlraMax factory reloads are accurate to 200 yrds from a pistol.