is this an abused colt?

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I can handle everything but the cut away trigger guard. I don't touch the front of the trigger guard as I draw, even if I don't get a perfect grip; and consider that part of the Fitz mods to be unnecessary. If you have long fingers, look at the Jordan cut which just narrows the guard on the strong side.

I somewhat agree with Chick Gaylord who said people who cut down guns like that were expecting "an affair of honor in a telephone booth."
 
Noble old Colt. The taped grips made me grimace a tad, but people did do such things for very good reason way back when. A real "Fitz" is a pricy collector's item.
 
Were this my gun and assuming not an historic piece such as belonging to someone like Frank Hamer,I would first replace the trigger guard, do a matt blue finish and install a set of Bill Jordan combat grips on it. I would change nothing else about it.
 
jim watson, if my memory serves me corectly (if I am incorrect someone please chime in) the cut away trigger guard also served the purpose of if you needed to get your fnger on the triger quickly and it is in a confined area such as a jacket pocket, it would require less effort to get your finger on the trigger.

for my methods of carry however I'd view it as both unecassary and a safety hazard
 
Many "professional" and other users, both back-when and now, object to the cut away trigger guard. They have a right to their opinions of course, but at the same time I have found it interesting that a number of very capable, informed and experienced individuals endorsed it.

They included, but were not limited to the previously mentioned Col. Charles Askins, William E. Fairbairn of Fairbairn and Sykes fame, Col. Rex Applegate, who carried one while part of a special Military Police detail that was assigned to help protect president Franklin Roosevelt for a short period after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and Paul B. Weston who for may years was in charge of handgun training at New York City’s Police Academy. I could name others, but enough is enough.

None of them lacked experience, or were armchair theorists. All of them understood that the likely outcome of a shooting would depend on which of the protagonists landed the first hit that would so disable the other(s) that they couldn’t continue to be a threat. Sometimes only a few milliseconds made the difference, and because of usual rules-of-engagement imposed on the good guys the bad ones would get to start the festivities. Therefore the wise ones were willing to try anything that might increase the odds in their favor, and in their experienced opinion the cut-back trigger guard was one such feature, especially when the revolver was likely to be pocket carried.

Jeff Cooper once made the point that everyone has a right to have an opinion about anything – but that the value of it was directly proportional to they’re experience and knowledge of the issue or subject.

Colt’s John H. Fitz-Gerald (spelling taken from his business card) designed his Fitz Specials for a small and select group of people. Colt never cataloged it, but made it on special order, most of which were submitted through Fitz-Gerald himself. Neither the designer nor the Colt Company intended it to be something for anybody and everybody. It should be noted that far more were made outside the factory then within. That said, most of those that owned the genuine article had the experience and knowledge Cooper was referring to, and even today what they believed and advocated is still meaningful.
 
very interesting info old fuff, I just personally wouldn't do it as I generally do appendix carry and I could see reholstering going very badlly
 
I generally do appendix carry and I could see reholstering going very badlly

Back during the dark ages appendix carry was more popular then it is today. While the Fitz Special was designed and intended to be side-pocket carried, they were also found in belt or shoulder holsters. The cutaway trigger guard didn't pose any problems with quality holsters that were made to accommodate the modification. First it would be difficult to rotate the trigger all of the way back against an average trigger pull of 10 pounds, and hold it there while the hammer fell, and second, doing it any other way would cause the revolver's “positive” hammer block safety to stop the hammer before the firing pin could go far enough to hit the primer.

Last but not least, neither Fitz-Gerald nor his selected users were fools. These things were thought out well in advance. Of course Colt had no control over those that had copies made by private gunsmiths, nor the people that carried them. Still, there doesn’t seem to be any period literature that’s been left to us with a documented history of problems, and for many years I’ve looked for it.
 
This could just be my vivid imagination but my fear was that in holster iwb I would manage to get my waist band caught inside the open trigger guard and it would push the trigger.
 
Ever tried pulling the DA trigger on a 1917 Colt?

More then likely, you would notice it, just before you ripped your pants clean off!

BTW: The only problem I ever heard about was an anecdotal story about somebody whacking a low-life over the head with one during a struggle.
And bending the remnant trigger guard spur up to where the trigger no longer could be pulled to get off a shot.

As luck would have it, getting hit over the head with a 1917 belly gun ended the fight before any shooting was necessary.

I think Bill Jordan was the one with the story, and he refused to completly cut the guard. He did slim it on the front right side for easier trigger finger access.
But he had hands way bigger then most.

rc
 
Well I'll offer two more observations:

The trigger pulls on Colt made Fitz Specials were a bit better then what was usually found; and the kind of people that got these revolvers through Fitz-Gerald seldom if ever used them to hit someone. Put frankly, they weren't the sort of individuals who hit-people-over-the-head, but some of the folks that they delt with might have wished that they were... :eek: :evil:
 
This is true.

However, many of the cut-down 1917's probably didn't have the Fitz personal trigger job.

Back in the early 60's I had a friend in the pawn shop business who was cranking out 1917 belly-guns like the one in the OP about one a month. He sure wasn't doing any Fitz grade trigger jobs on them!

rc
 
Oh, I didn't mean to dispute what you said about 1917 trigger pulls, just point out that the genuine ones were better.

Those that knew what they were doing always straightened the trigger finger before they either drew or reholstered. Unfortunately some Glock owners haven't learned to do this yet... :uhoh:
 
I can remember seeing a Colt snub nose revolver in .38 Special, that Charles Lindberg AKA Lucky Lindy owned, it had the cut away tigger guard, and a note with the gun stated, it was cut away for use with gloved hands.

I have also seen trigger gaurds that were cut to 1/2 the original width at the front portion, for eaiser acess to the trigger. When looked at from the front the trigger was exposed more on the right side, but still retained the full guard.
 
I can remember seeing a Colt snub nose revolver in .38 Special, that Charles Lindberg AKA Lucky Lindy owned, it had the cut away tigger guard, and a note with the gun stated, it was cut away for use with gloved hands.

Fitz-Gerald personally presented that revolver to him, and trained him how to use it. All this happened after Lindberg's baby son was kidnaped and murdered. It is said that sometime thereafter when he and his family moved to England he took the gun with him.

Times have sure changed... :(
 
I will note that many people who have a bit of experience unholstering and holstering their gun will place their thumb on the hammer when reholstering.

It would be difficult to crank off a shot when reholstering this gun if your thumb was on the bobbed hammer.

FWIW, this one is Giz's gun. He graciously allowed me to use the photo. I understand this particular gun does have an interesting history. I'll let Giz post it if he likes, as it was still being verified when I spoke with him.
 
Anyone who could acuate the Double Action mechanism of any open Trigger Bow DA Revolver by trying to Draw, or, re-Holster, would be too incompetant for any sort of Firearm, anyway, "period".



Oye...

Lol even, I s'pose...
 
At that time, it was common to carry a revolver in a holster with the trigger guard exposed, and draw the gun with the finger on the trigger. The cutaway trigger guard just made that easier.

Somewhere, I have a picture of myself drawing and firing a Model 19 DA from a Bucheimer Federal Man holster. The gun is at about a 45 degree angle but the hammer is half way back; it would fall when the gun came level on the target.

Today, we are not allowed to even think about touching the trigger until the gun is on the target and permission has been obtained from the police chief, the range officer, OSHA, and Josh Sugarman.

Jim
 
Either way I bet it made someone happy for many many years.
It still does, I bet. :D

Puts a smile on my face just looking at it. Almost guilty of coveting... must not covet... must... simply enjoy smile on face and history lessons learned. And I'm not almost guilty... I am... guilty as can be.
 
It is amazing how this being done by someone as respected as Fitz-Gerald is a thing of beauty but the same thing done by Joe-Blow in his garage is a Bubba-special. Go figure.
 
I dont think its abused. I like it a lot. Back when that gun was probably modified people didnt have a lot of money to go buy new guns. They modified what they had at the time to suit their needs.
 
it's not abused, it's a beauty, like this one here:

fitz1.jpg


gotta love those Fitz treatments. i tried convincing my mom to do that to hers.

PS - the gun pictured isn't mine, but i wish it could be.
 
This almost makes my mind up about what to do with a somewhat funky not very collectible S&W M1917.

Can't cut the barrel quite so short because the Smith hasn't got the Colt 'free standing' ejector rod, but a cut right in front of the rod holder thing would leave it with a 3 1/4" barrel that is 2 1/4" in front of the frame.

Take out the lanyard loop, round the butt slightly, round the butt of a pair of Ahrend's grips to fit, and cut off the cocking part of an old double action only hammer that this gun originally had.

Then I'd have to think hard about whether to cut away the front of the trigger guard but the electrician's tape is easy.

Smith1917a.gif

Not this Smith - another one like it but not as clean.
 
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