its hopeless, she'll never understand.....

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Spaceman,

"the one that would let you die and let herself be raped rather than take control of her destiny as well as yours".


this does bug me a lot. half of me is old fashioned and thinks that since i am the man, my role is the protector. i will gladly die for her. the other half of me thinks, i help those that help themselves. the fact that she is unwilling to protect herself or me bugs me. i'm not sure what to do about that. i suppose the first step is to talk to her and tell her my thoughts and see how she responds.

the only similarities she shares with my mother is that she likes to keep a clean house. dear ol' mom is and EXTREME anti. she hates guns with a passion. my parents and the girlfriend went halves on the gunsafe for my b-day. mom is so anti gun that she didn't even want to get me a safe to keep them in. she thinks i shouldn't have them at all. it took dear ol' dad to tell her that, hey, he's gonna have 'em like it or not, might as well help him keep them safely locked up. she agreed eventually. her and my mom have very little in common. they get a long well enough, but they're never going to be buddies or anything. (thank goodness).

Bobby
 
yes Darrin, she's very cute. she's a tiny little thing. brunette, 5'2" and 102lbs. she's older than me, (28) and still gets carded for buying lotto tickets. she looks like she's 17 years old. she's cute as button. and fiesty too! she keeps me in line. never had a woman that could do that before. i kind of like it.

Bobby
 
"she refused to admit that she is not in control of her surrounding at all times."

"she uses the argument that a gun will be taken away from her and used against her."

How does she reconcile that contradiction?

---

If you love her, be prepared to stick with her no matter what. I am married to an Anti, but she has come a very long way in the time we've been together. People can change over time, just don't depend on those changes working in your favor. I got lucky in that my wife now has decided to learn to shoot, just to know how guns work. Five years ago she would not allow any guns in our house. She still does not want to carry, but is ok with me carrying. Try to lay out the "rules" now so there are no surprises or misunderstandings after you are married. If you have any doubts, have a prenup agreement that the guns are yours and will remain your after a divorce.
 
Darrin, you're cracking me up! but really, would it be smart of me to say,"hey! my girlfriend isn't armed, is of slight build, cute as heck, and probably won't even defend herself!" and then put a picture of her on the internet? and where she lives? (with me in western WA, as can be seen on the left of the screen) probably not smart to do that. not that i don't trust ya'll highRoaders, but you aren't the only ones that read these boards. after all, i'm trying to keep her SAFE. remember? :)

Bobby
 
she refused to admit that she is not in control of her surrounding at all times. she refused to admit that there are people that will do bad thing for no reason at all. she refused to admit that a firearm can give you an advantage in a life threatening situation.
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First thing, I am a lousy one to give relationship advice (all my lady friends tell me this -- loudly)! Second, maybe I am reading too much into this. Third, this is truly not meant as an insult to her or you (you did ask for input).

Having said that, if it is true that she holds these beliefs, I wonder if this is some kind of psychological problem at work. It seems akin to me to "refusing to admit that the sky is blue, refusing to admit that the earth is round, and refusing to admit that the moon is not made of blue cheese'.

If she is capable of convincing herself of these views she seems to me to be capable of an incredible amount of self-deception. I would be very wary of making a life-time bond with someone who seems able to create her own "alternate reality" so easily.

But like I said, maybe I am reading WAAAAY too much into this -- maybe if I talked to her in person, I would not question this so much.

Good Luck
 
Egg,


no insults taken. what you say is a possibility. she did grow up in a house with an alcoholic and verbally abusive dad. when he wasn't in jail that is. she admits that he messed her mind up a bit. among other things that went bad durring her younger years. her mother was a little looney and her brother ended up killing himself. unrelated to my girlfriend though. she deals with it sometimes and other times uses the "i don't want to talk about it" defense. heck, we all have some baggage that messed us up somewhere along the line. hers might have been more severe than most though. perhaps that factors into her reasoning. i don't know for sure.

Bobby
 
If she was opposed to you having guns, that would be one thing.
But she's just saying what she wants for herself. You should be able to live with that, unless you're really controlling.
True love is precious and rare. Don't let it get away for what sound like some pretty trivial disagreements to me. How much practical difference is it likely to make?

By the way, don't bet your bottom dollar that she (or you) won't want children eventually. Lots of folks think they don't want them until they're actually in a stable, permanent relationship, then they start thinking about them.
 
I have been married for 43 years...........

and my wife is, most definitely, anti gun. As an emergency room nurse she has more than once experienced just what gunshot wounds do to people. I am, on the other hand, an avowed gun nut and have been for a long, long time. Many years ago we agreed that we would never agree on the issue of guns. We also agreed that neither of us would try to convert the other. And, we have left it at that. We are very careful about giving each other "space" on the issues where we disagree. We never discussed the matter before we were married but have since agreed that there are a lot more important issues in a marriage than whether we see "eye to eye" on every little t hing. It has worked for us. Good shooting;)
 
Okie,

everyone tells us we'll change our minds about kids. its not just that we don't want kids, we really don't like them, save for a few that are family. its a safe bet that we won't be having kids. its not just my idea either, she told me first that she didn't ever want kids. i knew i struck gold when she said that.

''If she was opposed to you having guns, that would be one thing.
But she's just saying what she wants for herself. You should be able to live with that, unless you're really controlling. ''

i totally agree with the frist part. she doesn't want a gun, and thats perfectly ok with me. the thing thats troubling me is that shes anti-defense and anti-precaution. she's convinced that she'll be safe, period. no need to do anything to ensure it. and of course, i'm worried about her. i want her to be safe. i wish i could be there to protect her all the time, but when i can't, i just want her to be able to take care of herself in a bad situation. as of now her only defenses are the Nike defense, and when she remembers, (which is not often) OC spray. both of which can be easily defeated by an intent criminal.


i don't consider my self to be controlling. she doesn't either. heck i encourage her to go out with her girlfriends. not having any other friends isn't healthy. luckily for me, often, she'd rather spend time with me. i'm really thankful for that.

Bobby
 
update....


what'ya know, she called me on her lunch break today. its always nice to hear from her.

i said," i hate to bring this up again, especially while you're at work, but i jsut have to get this question off my chest. what would you do if I was the one being attacked and was incapacitated? would you defend me?"

she took pause, and said, "yes"

i asked," with what?"

she said, "i don't know, but i'll do anything within my power to defend you, or myself, but i just won't use a gun."

"ok" i said.

i'm actually pretty satisfied with that answer. i guess its not as bad as i thought. or maybe she pondered it a bit last night. perhaps i made her think? at least its a step in the right direction. i feel a little better now.

i appreaciate everyone's input. i think i like Dairycreek's solution the best. agree to disagree. the more i push it, the more i'll push her away from firearms. i think it'll be best to let her come to her own conclusions. my parents forced religion on me when i was young, now i'm agnostic. i don't want to do that to her.

Bobby
 
Love is a many splendored thing:)

Safety,,,,,,, some day, some way, she is going to find a gun in her way, and you will not be there. Maybe you left one on the coffee table, and left, and unexpected company just arrived. Maybe you were in an auto accident, and the gun was thrown from the holster, and you are unconscious. I think that you should absolutely insist that she be familiar enough with the guns you own, and safe gun handling, to be able to secure them and make them safe. In less than an hour you can teach her the four rules, and teach her how to identify the safety, and clear an auto pistol, and a revolver. a pump shotgun, an auto shotgun, a break action shotgun, a bolt rifle. How many of these do you have? If all you accomplish is to teach her to point it in a safe direction, and never touch the trigger you may save a life.

Good luck
 
i'm actually pretty satisfied with that answer. i guess its not as bad as i thought. or maybe she pondered it a bit last night. perhaps i made her think? at least its a step in the right direction. i feel a little better now.
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.....hang on, i was gonna type out a long response, but i'll just paste the text from a letter i wrote to the editor of our local newspaper. they did print it, surprisingly.

There are thousands of Alaskan citizens who carry concealed and openly defensive weapons, every day, and everywhere it is legal to do so. We do this because we cannot predict when a bad thing will happen, to us, our loved ones, or even a complete stranger we encounter. And guess what? NEITHER CAN YOU.
Unfortunately there are plenty of unprepared potential victims of violent crime in our society that feel they are safe because they HOPE they don’t come across a criminal. Hope is not a strategy.
One letter writer asked what Mielke was doing with ‘a pistol that big. It’s no good for hunting, only good for shooting people.’ Obviously that letter writer is an expert in firearms just like Sarah Brady or Rosie Odonnell is. [rolls eyes]
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“her dad was an alcoholic that used guns VERY irresponsibly"

"she refused to admit that she is not in control of her surrounding at all times."

"she uses the argument that a gun will be taken away from her and used against her."

“she's convinced that she'll be safe, period. no need to do anything to ensure itâ€
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My advice is worth every penny that you’re paying, so take it all with a large grain of salt.
That over – Kids who grow up in the chaos of the alcoholic/addict home learn a worldview to deal with it. Some become hyper-vigilant, and some others adopt an “I’m protected by angels†or “there is nothing bad that could happen to me†attitude.
Those who assume the first attitude often have considerable trouble trusting another human enough to form a real bond. Those with the “I’m in control-nothing will happen to me†attitude often have a crisis when something happens that they can’t explain or rationalize away. I’ve seen these all too often in myself and others that grew up in similar circumstances.
I don’t know exactly where I’m going with this, but I applaud your efforts to gently bring her around so that IF something happens, she will have a paradigm to use to deal with it.
I agree with the others who said if you love her, keep her.
 
Does she plan to bear children?

How far will she go to protect them?

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Have her check out Oleg's website
 
Lies men tell women before marriage:

1. I'll never look at another woman.
2. I like your family.
3. I'll change. (i.e. I'll be a better man.)


Lies women tell men before marriage:

1. I don't want kids.
2. I like your family.
3. I'll never change. (i.e. I won't become my mother.)

Ok, all humor aside (although there's more truth than humor in the above),

Your views don't play even a small part in her world. She may trust you to take out the garbage, but obviously, she and her friends "know more" about really important things like self-defense than you do.

Now, think about some other important things that she "knows more about" than you do. Do you want to live your life with someone who refuses to recognize your views as having any practical merit?
 
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Well, I love my family very much, but they never got any guns. Not exactly anti, but I suppose they just never saw a need for it. If you take the relationship to the next level, I'll bet for 364 days of the year it will be a non-issue. But once in awhile, it will come up.

Will she let you take your kids to the range or on a hunt? Will she let you have guns in your house? You may think you know the answer, but people often change their minds.

I concur with most of the people on this thread - it's best to show her resources like Oleg's site. It certianly couldn't do any harm.
 
I'm not sure why have solicited other's advice, as you seem to dismiss all advice contrary to your decision. Are you looking for others to validate your decision?

A partner is either an asset or a liability. A partner that lives life in condition white, refusing to believe that anything dangerous can occur, is a liability to both you and herself. Now instead of having someone watch out for you (and complementing your situational awareness, etc.), you have two people to watch out for you - a liability. Refusing to embrace or consider all possible options to protect herself (or you) (e.g., the statement "I just won't use a gun") can increase danger to both of you - again, a liability.

You seem to have made up your mind, though, so I wish you the best of luck.
 
Usually people like that have been sheep for so long they completly loose any sight of surviving- or, the need to survive- or, the means and tools needed to survive. Unless something happens to her or someone she knows, nothing is going to wake her up out of her little Utopian world.
 
Hey, I never asked for pics, just if she was cute. :p

You've gotten a lot of input here. I'd take all of it into account. Again, best of luck. :)
 
she also said she could never kill another person no matter what they were trying to do to her.
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I've learned life is too short for this kind of aggrevation. Find another girlfriend.

She truly seems brainwashed, of course what people say and what they would actually do may be two different things.

I suppose you could keep working on her, but I would be more forceful about it.
 
Hmm, tough situation. Without you saying so, I could tell by what you said in your initial posts that your GF has a troubled past with her family; dysfunctional that's for sure. I agree with Maddock's assessment of how people deal with such things growing up. They either learn to defy it and be untrusting of others or totally oblivious in their own made up utopian reality.

If it were me, she'd be gone; heck she would have been gone 3 years and 11 months ago:) I can understand your dilemma in that you obviously care for her very much. That's to be commended So, all I can say is know what you're getting into. She may have a twisted perspective but make sure you don't. Know that you're probably never ever going to change her attitude. Know that, problems between people in relationships quite often either stay the same or get worse, not better, after marriage.

Ask yourself how much are you able to tolerate? Will you be able to deal with the possibility that if she is raped/assaulted that it possibly occured because she was to oblivious to reality? Are you going to blame yourself for not being more persistent with this? Are you going to blame her for your suffering because of what happened to her? To me, this is no different than someone who refuses to take care of their health; it's selfish with no thought about the significant other and what they'll have to do to take care of the individual who's being selfish.

Note that even an armed and prepared individual can be a victim. However, an unarmed person is more of a victim, an unarmed, unrealistic, oblivious person is a definite target.

To me, it sounds very selfish that she doesn't care about what you care about; her safety. I've been studying Filipino martial arts for 15+ years, which involves lots of full-contact and weapons play, and it alarms me that she has such a pacificist, "nothing bad will happen to me" attitude. Even with my training and experience, I'm still very cautious about what goes on around me and I have no doubts that I can be seriously harmed or worse in a confrontation.

Bad things do happen. I think now more than ever, people are more likely to be the victims or assault, especially women. If anyone can defend themselves it would be me and others like me who are into weapons and martial sciences but even the most elite of us have no guarantee that we'll be okay if things go sour.

The only thing that may change her mind is if she actually is assaulted. Who knows, maybe she'd deal with it the way she probably deals with most other things, an altered reality that's perceived as being positive and confident. If you were attacked, she says she'd try and help protect you, but how? How do you know she won't just freeze up and think it's not really happening because she doesn't want to believe it's happening. I can understand your honor in wanting to be the main protector but you can't guarantee that you'll be successful and perps are going to jump you first, take you out, then take her.

You also mentioned, "the part that gets me is her naive view of the world. she didn't get my example of the fire extinguisher in the kitchen, the spare tire in the trunk, or carrying a cell phone. she think that she "shouldn't have to worry about things like that, people shouldn't try to hurt other people." well of course we SHOULDN"T have to, but we do, and to ignore that is well, ignorant"

There seems to be more than just guns and self protection involved. Are you prepared for the possible nagging of "why do we have to waste so much money on a fire extinguisher, we're not going to have a fire" or "I'm tired of wasting mone on a cell phone, I'll just use a pay phone". Know that these types of everyday things can and will become a source of tension and argument.

You also stated, "other times uses the "i don't want to talk about it" defense". This will be another source of problems. People should discuss things otherwise those problems don't get solved. You can't solve a math problem without thinking about it and doing some calculation; likewise, you can't solve day-to-day problems with real people if you don't talk about them; "I don't want to talk about it" doesn't cut it.

So, just be aware of what you're getting into. I foresee that you will be constantly trying to keep yourself afloat in this relationship. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
on having kids

When we were little kids, we were quite sure we would never kiss a girl or have a girlfriend. Isn't that usually the case?

We also thought we would never forget what it is like to be a kid, we would never act like our parents, never do this or that, etc.

My wife and I have been married 10 years last October. We both swore and sincerely, honestly, deeply believed we would never have kids - kids are messy, noisy, needy and unpredictable.

We enjoyed dual incomes, sleeping in, eating icecream for dinner if we wanted, etc. We lived a very enjoyable, carefree life for seven years. Babies were cute for a few minutes - even cuter in pictures when they were not drooling on us.

Then, things changed. The living for fun and luxury got old. My brother had a daughter.

My point is simply this - if you are 25 years old now, imagine trying to live up to decisions you made on your perception of the world at 15. Don't assume that the 35 year old you is going to see things the same ad the 25yr old you.
 
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