It's make or break time for me and Smith

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kv501

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Hello, all--

I'm a long time reader but this is my first post. I'll start by saying that I have found by far the best and most useful info at THR and it's always interesting.

Now to the meat and potatoes. I'm an experienced shooter mostly dealing with clay sports and handgunning, and last week I ordered a 627 from Smith's Performance Center. I know a couple of people that have one, and by reading here the general consensus is that most people have a positive experience with them. Every one that I have fired or handled in the past has been an excellent shooter with about as nice a trigger as you'll find in a semi-production .357. Mine came in Friday, and when I went to pick it up I looked it over sort of quickly as I was in a hurry to pick my son up after work. I dry fired, checked timing, lock-up, etc. Looked and felt great. I packed it back up and went home. This morning was the first time I was able to shoot it. The owner of the shop gave me a box of Independence 158 gr. SJSP, and I had a box of my own 140 gr. SWC loads which have never let me down in ANY revo. I used them in.

I got out there and set up, and the first thing I noticed was how sloppy the rear blade was in the mount. I could actually shake the gun and hear it rattle, and after a phone call to my buddy he told me that his 627's bade was tight and straight. I thought well, whatever, Ill take it in and have them replace it. No big deal, just irritating in a $1,000 gun. So. Then I get loaded up, rested and pointed down range. This is when it gets bad. The front sight definitely looked like it was leaning to the left. I figured it had to be the bad rear sight so I decided I'd just keep a consistent hold and see how it grouped...Way high/right. I popped the rest of the cylinder, walked down and saw that I had about a basketball-sized group (I'm definitely a sub-basketball group shooter, and I an get my 686 to hold a couple inches at 25 yds.). Changed to my loads, same thing. I tried that exact 686, and I was right on. I did manage to get the POI brought back down in front of the gun, but not by much.

Now I'm pretty pissed about buying this thing, and when I got it home to clean it I found some horrifying things out. Examining the front sight to see why it looked canted, I saw that the serrations on the backstrap didn't quite line up with those on the barrel, nor with anything else. Looking down the barrel (unloaded of course) I could tell that the entire thing was rotated in the frame about 3 or 4 degrees, maybe more or less depending on my estimation, but you could definitely see that it was pressed in clockwise to the frame. Now I'm REALLY pissed. Next I put two straight edges on the frame and I could see that the barrel's NOT EVEN IN THE FRAME STRAIGHT.

Back to the store I go. The owner was also quite perturbed about Smith sending this thing out, especially because I was showing him all of this stuff in front of a few potential customers. It's going back Monday morning to get fixed (hopefully replaced). Now I am a pretty forgiving person, so I will say that I'm willing to give the P.C. a chance to make it right. I don't have any experience with the folks there, but I hear they're decent and I love the action (better than the aforementioned 686) and the rest of the gun. If however it comes back as a POS like it is now, I'm going to consider it a learning experience, sell it for what I can get, and tell everyone within yelling distance what kind of stuff comes from the P.C. for a thousand bucks.

Guys, I really, really hope I'm not disappointed with their answer for this because I really do like the other ones I've shot. If you would be interested in hearing what happens wen I get it back, I'll keep you posted. Thanks for reading this far.

--Nick
 
I hate it when I get a lemon anything. I get that all of the time.

You can rest assured Smith will take care of you. It should be, but if it isn;t don't give up on the gun. The end result will be well worth the grief you are having now.

Bob
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement. Hopefully they go over it well and make it a winner. I'm not so concerned about turnaround time or anything like that, I just want to get back the gun I was expecting.

--Nick
 
Give them a chance to rectify this. I have taken advantage, in every sense of the word, of their super service twice. In both cases, the faults weren't their's, yet they did the work gratis - and quickly. The longest time taken was a fraction of the time my brand new Ruger Redhawk took to 'repair' - and even the call is on S&W. Call their 800# and they'll send you a pickup stamp/label, you can have the gun picked up from you, repaired, and returned to you. If they have to replace the frame (S/N), it would then have to go through an ffl, otherwise, from and to you - overnite - on their dime. Great folks! Unless you've found a dealer who will refund your money - or exchange it with you, you may as well keep him out of it... your beef is with S&W - he will just had a tertiary stop for your revolver in it's travels.

Stainz

PS My JM PC627 V-Comp is my finest revolver... you'll love it when it's right!
 
Yeah I already brought it back to the dealer, he'll be sending it in Monday morning

--Nick
 
MMmmmmmmm...
kv501 your post got me worried.

In a couple of days I'll have to go and have a look at an used 627-PC, travel longish distance in the process. If you can expect lemons in new products, in used guns the odds are sure higher.

Anyone can reasssure me about that? Or should I go for the new item? It's going to be my first revolver and I need it ready to shoot good groupings!!
 
Let us know how it turns out. Smith ain't cheap, and they do occassionally make a mistake, but they are usually excellent about fixing their mistakes. Good luck.
 
MMmmmmmmm...
kv501 your post got me worried.

In a couple of days I'll have to go and have a look at an used 627-PC, travel longish distance in the process. If you can expect lemons in new products, in used guns the odds are sure higher.

Anyone can reasssure me about that? Or should I go for the new item? It's going to be my first revolver and I need it ready to shoot good groupings!!

I'm sure the gun is fine. The one I bought was probably just an anomaly. Do be sure to check it over well as you would with any revolver, if it is your first I would suggest this post--read it well: Used revolver checkout. My post wasn't meant to scare anyone off of 627s, just to be informational and hopefully give the PC a chance to sink or swim in my eyes.

--Nick
 
My PC 327 TRR8 had a disappointing first range outing. Yes, the rear sight blade was a little wobbly, but not an end of the world thing. Also, the finish on the cylinder was a little off. But the real problem was repeated light primer strikes. Using moon clips or not, it didn't want to ignite primers.

So they're sending me a UPS label. For what I paid, IMO, they ought to send a limo full of eunuchs to escort it back.

Somebody in the Performance Center needs to step up the quality control. This sort of thing on their "crown jewel" line of kilobuck-plus guns is unacceptable.
 
Not to step on toes but if this had been a Taurus revolver the wolves would be howling about how it's a POS and sell it because the factory probably won't fix it right. Since this is a PC revolver you would think they spend a little more time improving the quality over a production model. Everyone let's a lemon slip out every now and then but you would think the semi-custom guns would have their faults caught before they go out the door. The PC shop hasn't impressed me in a long time.
 
If you can expect lemons in new products, in used guns the odds are sure higher.

I'm not so sure about that. I've had far more problems with brand new factory firearms than used ones. The used ones have already been proven. Though in either case a hand inspection is vital.
 
The PC shop hasn't impressed me in a long time.

I have to disagree with you there. Like I said in my earlier posts, I love the others I have shot. The triggers were all great, and they were just awesome guns period. I am going to give them a chance. Imagine if I tried to get to get a new computer, car, or anything else these days in for warranty work. It sure wouldn't be free, fast, or apologetic like S&W has been so far.
 
My wife's 327PC is at S&W right now for a chipped frame. The little chunk came out of the frame before we had fed a box of ammo through it. Needless to say, it's caused a lot of head scratching. I'm not even sure that it was a structurally-compromising flaw in the firearm, but it wasn't right. When you spend that kind of $$$ on anything, it should be right. She's been pestering them about it, and they've been courteous but tight-lipped. I have to wonder what's going on there...

I'm not offering this as an excuse, but these things are hand-fitted, semi-custom guns. They are more subject to human error than the full production models. If the smith is having a bad day, it could manifest itself in sloppy errors. Now that being said, I am highly annoyed with the problems. They clearly need to do something with QC on these things, as I keep seeing anecdotal evidence that this is a problem.

Other than that, it is just about the sweetest shooting handgun that I've ever dealt with. I'm looking forward to her getting it back (or possibly a full replacement). I'm also dying to hear an explanation of the problem. --on yours as well!
 
Update Time

Thought I'd give you guys the update I promised:

My 627 came back from Smith a couple days ago, and I just now got to take it out to the range. When I picked it up, the shop owner told me that they had replaced both the barrel and cylinder. I thought that was odd because the problems I had seemed to be barrel related, but I'm pretty sure that they know more about revolvers than I do. Anyhow, everything looked straight in the frame this time, and the front sight was definitely not leaning. The trigger was buttery smooth like when it left, and the only thing that looked cosmetically different was that the friction ring around the cylinder was faint from not being cycled. Gap, cylinder/barrel alignment, and lockup was all good to go.

Now for the range report. I took it out this afternoon, with some cheap Independence ammo that the owner gave me for my trouble. I only had time for a few cylinders, but I am definitely impressed with the job they did. Now, I'm no competition shooter, but taking my time I can shoot some decent groups. The two that I shot were at 25 yds off of one of those cheap plastic Caldwell pistol rests. I'm in Northwest Iowa, with about 25 degree weather and 25 mph winds (not an excuse, but the cold made me hurry and I think I'd do better without the wind and the numb hands:D). They are pictured below in case you'd like to see. I didn't keep the targets from before, but I can tell you that before the repair work, it looked like buckshot no matter how hard I worked. I also don't know what was wrong with it, but I don't care because I have a helluva fine gun now, and that was what I wanted. A couple of clicks to the left and I'll be right there. I would definitely tell anyone with an issue to trust their customer service department. They came through for me, and I think we can all safely say that that is rare today. I'm sure that given some of my SWC handloads, I would dare say I'd easily get the groups to half that size.

Here's the first one

P1010245.gif

This is a whole cylinder full, the two flyers are definitely my fault, this gun shoots better than me

P1010246.gif

Here is the letter I got back from Smith

IMG2.jpg

Let me know if you guys have any questions. Thanks for reading and your replies.

Nick
 
Good to hear a satisfactory ending to the ordeal.

Not to step on toes but if this had been a Taurus revolver the wolves would be howling about how it's a POS and sell it because the factory probably won't fix it right.

Yeah, that thought came to my mind, too. I think the main problem with Taurus' customer service is they're a little long in turn around time. I don't know, never had to send one back, but just sayin'. If I ever do send 'em one in the future, it ain't like I don't have other firearms to shoot while it's away. But, people are impatient, seem to want 10 minute turn around or something. From what I hear, Smith and Wesson turns around problem guns a bit quicker. I think the problems lay in the Taurus service system, not sure any details, but they are based in Brazil.
 
While not directly related to 627s, my little Smith service story has some value.
I traded into a 940, the 9mm J-frame snub. It shot okay for a couple of cylinderfuls, but then the ejection became very difficult. This was common for this little gun and probably had a lot to do with its short catalog life.
Then I noticed it had a ringed barrel, characteristic of an overtorqued barrel installation. That was a real problem, as I intended to sell the gun but felt the barrel ring was too much to put on a buyer.
I called Smith service and they sent me a shipping label in a couple of days. Off the gun went, and came back in ten days. It had been fitted with a new barrel and cylinder, and came with a letter very similar to the one above.
The gun also appeared to get a bit of a going-over, seemingly a bit more polished up and with a better trigger action than I recalled.
I took it down to the range and ran a hundred through it. It was a totally different gun, shooting more accurately and ejecting perfectly. Combined with the improved looks, I did a 180 on the gun and decided to keep it once and for all.
Now, it's a superb gun, better than I hoped.
There was no charge from Smith.
Consider me highly impressed. An older gun, of which I was not the original owner, brought right up to the highest spec. Nice, Smith.
Bill
 
There is no excuse for a PC gun to leave the shop with these kind of issues.
That said, S&W service is first rate in my experience.

I'm glad it was resolved satisfactorily.
 
Yeah I was definitely worried that I would be stuck with a lemon, but they made it worthwhile. I agree that it shouldn't have left like that, but I am willing to stick with them now. It isn't very often anymore that you get customer service of any kind in the U.S., let alone fast, free, and reliable.

Nick
 
Years ago I had a 629 that I shot a lot. When I say a lot I'm talking 400 to 600 rounds a week for three or so years. I had a membership at an indoor range five minutes from where I lived and shot a lot of competitions. A lot of those rounds were .44 special full wad-cutter loads, but a bunch were full house magnum loads. I shot that gun loose a couple of times, timing issues, worn hand, cylinder latch. Smith&Wesson twice paid for shipping both ways and fixed it up like new. No charge. Their customer service has always been very good to me.
 
MCgunner said:
I don't know, never had to send one back, but just sayin'. If I ever do send 'em one in the future, it ain't like I don't have other firearms to shoot while it's away. But, people are impatient, seem to want 10 minute turn around or something.
I can understand them being impatient. On most products, you go and just get a replacement; but with guns, the paperwork precludes that, which is one reason to always check the gun you're getting before doing the paperwork.

I saw a recent documentary on the History Channel that had a large segment on the new .500 Smith. After the guns are produced, each one is "inspected" by someone who's supposed to catch things like that. I would think any lines on the frame not matching up with the lines on the barrel would be one of the check points they'd...well...check.
 
Glad to hear that they are not crush fitting barrels to the frames anymore. Or does this one have a newer two piece barrel?
 
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