IWB holsters: breaking rule #1 every time you holster?

[777funk]

#1: Never point the barrel at anything you don't intend to shoot/destroy.

Isn't an IWB holster a way to point the muzzle at a rear end, leg, arteries, feet, knees, etc every time the gun is holstered?

Not trying to sound whimpy in a macho world but no one's macho enough to enjoy taking one to the buttocks or a nice big leg wound. I don't think my 12 year old hunter's safety course all these years ago would pass an Inside the Waist Band Holster. Are these a good idea?

I also realize there are other rules... but #1 is #1 for a reason.

 

[jhb]

Another important rule........finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard area....which one would hope all those who wear iwb holsters practice. That said my owb holsters force one to point the muzzle towards their body/leg/ foot for a bit as well during holstering.

Following one of those two rules leads to about no chance of a negligent discharge. That said I've heard a person shot themselves in the leg while holstering a glock in an owb holster before. Famous tale from a local gun range. Cant say if it's true or not but the range owner swears by it.

 

[WYO]

IWB is not really different than OWB. The only distinction is whether the holster is inside or outside the belt. You have to watch where the muzzle is pointing either way to make sure no body parts are in the line of fire.

 

[CNobbe]

I might be the only one, but I holster my CCW before I get dressed. When I'm ready to put my holster on, I touch the holster and not the gun at all.

 

[ABTOMAT]

You'd really love the holster I have coming in the mail--it's a vintage Bianchi inverted shoulder rig. Steve Mcqueen and Clint Eastwood didn't seem to mind having a snubby pointed at their armpit all day.

 

[AustinTX]

Well, cops with "Glock Leg" weren't necessarily carrying IWB, so extreme caution should be part of the game any time you holster a firearm.

That said, the rules don't exist to command unthinking fealty to the literal language. They operate as an interlocking, redundant set of safety measures that allow for practical exceptions to any single rule. Any single one of them (and sometimes more than one) can be violated in its literal sense without tragic consequence so long as the others are observed. My nightstand gun is always loaded, so I'm arguably in perpetual violation of rule #3, depending upon how liberally you want to construe the word "use" in this context. I indisputably have to violate rule #2 to field-strip my PPS, G17, etc., since I am definitely not prepared to shoot anything when I not only touch, but pull the trigger. I violate rule #1 and #2 automatically with indoor dry fire practice, since I definitely don't intend to destroy any of the walls in my home, or passersby possibly beyond them, as I repeatedly touch and pull the trigger.

You can't carry a gun in a concealed fashion in most circumstances without at some point having the muzzle pointed at some part of your body during the course of a day's worth of normal body movements. So you're in violation of rules #1 and (somewhat arguably) #3. But observe rule #2 with utmost care -- in fact, interpret it extremely broadly so that "your finger" represents any object that could contact the trigger face -- and you'll be alright.

 

[Girodin]

I might be the only one, but I holster my CCW before I get dressed. When I'm ready to put my holster on, I touch the holster and not the gun at all.

So you never train with your CCW gun in a manner that involves drawing it and then reholstering?

I violate rule #1 and #2 automatically with indoor dry fire practice, since I definitely don't intend to destroy any of the walls in my home, or passersby possibly beyond them, as I repeatedly touch and pull the trigger.

I agree with the point of your post. However rule number two is don't let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy. I don't dry fire at things I am absolutely not willing to accept could be destroyed (I do take various other safety measures to dry fire safely). For example I would never dry fire at a person. At various other objects I do. I also dry fire in generally safe directions.

Understanding reholstering technique and potential hazards is important. I think it is particularly important with AIWB.

 

[Mainsail]

#1: Never point the barrel at anything you don't intend to shoot/destroy.

I also realize there are other rules... but #1 is #1 for a reason.

Actually that's #2.

Rule #1 is, "Treat all guns as loaded until you verify that it is not."

 

[Zaydok Allen]

IWB carry is safe and very common if done so with an appropriate holster and strict observance of keeping your trigger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Is it technically breaking safety rules? Yeah a little bit. So the bottom line is pay attention and always be aware of your gun.

 

[AustinTX]

I agree with the point of your post. However rule number two is don't let the muzzle point at anything you are not willing to destroy. I don't dry fire at things I am absolutely not willing to accept could be destroyed (I do take various other safety measures to dry fire safely). For example I would never dry fire at a person. At various other objects I do. I also dry fire in generally safe directions.

There are a few different iterations of the rules, each with slightly different wording. I'm just going off my memory of how the NRA teaches them to beginners (as I've referenced them here, #1 relating to muzzle direction, #2 to touching the trigger, #3 to loaded/unloaded status of the gun).

As for dry firing, I do see what you're saying, and I too never intentionally dry fire toward something I could not accept being destroyed. I was taking it quite a bit further than intent, though. I live in a house in an urban environment, and though I do my best to dry fire in a safe direction, I'm not always certain that my house would stop a round from escaping (early 20th century all-wood home, no stone exterior) and that a neighbor or other passerby would not be endangered by a stray round or its ricochet, etc. I dry fire at the chimney when it's not a nuisance to others, but I sometimes go into another room in the house to conduct my annoying click-click-clicks. I engage in less than 100% compliance with my rule #1/your rule #2 in these instances, so I begin by double- and triple-checking in a variety of manners that my gun is unloaded, maybe even disassembling it to look it over before starting practice.

Anyway, I don't think we're in substantive disagreement over anything here.

 

[AustinTX]

Actually that's #2.

Rule #1 is, "Treat all guns as loaded until you verify that it is not."

Like I said in my last reply, there are several versions of the rules of firearm safety, containing both different ordering and slightly different wording.

That particular rule #1 is at variance with some other versions of the rules, though, because some will mandate treating the gun as loaded no matter what. Lots of people have injured or killed themselves and others when they were just certain that they had verified the gun was unloaded.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

IWB only puts your gun 1/8" closer to your leg than OWB. You're no more apt to muzzle your leg with one than the other if you holster correctly. You don't really think the leg of your Levi's is gonna stop a bullet do you?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A holstered gun or when in the act of holstering the gun is not considered breaking any rules like when it's in your hand unholstered.

If a holstered gun were bound by the 4 rules you could never sit down when wearing a gun. Most times a holstered gun is pointing forward when you are sitting and most times the holstered gun is pointing at someone.

It's just not considered unsafe when you are not holding the gun in your hand. People make mistakes but the gun won't fire itself.

 

[Lucky Derby]

Well, cops with "Glock Leg" weren't necessarily carrying IWB, so extreme caution should be part of the game any time you holster a firearm.

That said, the rules don't exist to command unthinking fealty to the literal language. They operate as an interlocking, redundant set of safety measures that allow for practical exceptions to any single rule. Any single one of them (and sometimes more than one) can be violated in its literal sense without tragic consequence so long as the others are observed. My nightstand gun is always loaded, so I'm arguably in perpetual violation of rule #3, depending upon how liberally you want to construe the word "use" in this context. I indisputably have to violate rule #2 to field-strip my PPS, G17, etc., since I am definitely not prepared to shoot anything when I not only touch, but pull the trigger. I violate rule #1 and #2 automatically with indoor dry fire practice, since I definitely don't intend to destroy any of the walls in my home, or passersby possibly beyond them, as I repeatedly touch and pull the trigger.

You can't carry a gun in a concealed fashion in most circumstances without at some point having the muzzle pointed at some part of your body during the course of a day's worth of normal body movements. So you're in violation of rules #1 and (somewhat arguably) #3. But observe rule #2 with utmost care -- in fact, interpret it extremely broadly so that "your finger" represents any object that could contact the trigger face -- and you'll be alright.

Well said. I've often wanted to relate just this and you did it very well.

 

[ATLDave]

OP, you are correct.

Which is precisely why I (1) will only carry guns with an external safety (an off-switch) and (2) holster the gun, then put the holster/gun combo on.

Obviously, many other people do it many other ways and have done so safely for years or decades. I'm not second guessing them. I'm just saying what I do and why. I want MANY things to have to fail/go wrong for the gun to discharge while it's pointed at me.

 

[Sam1911]

Good holstering practices will greatly reduce this risk. We had a (sortof) local guy shoot himself in the leg at a nearby range during a USPSA match a year or two ago, using an OWB competition holster. (Never fully nailed down whether his finger or something else caused the trigger to operate.)

I have the habit, which I have instilled in my kids as well, of always moving my strong-side foot out of the path of the muzzle when holstering any gun. (I actually just cross my right foot over my left, which pulls everything out of the way of the muzzle.) It really isn't that hard to move your body 99% out of the way. Might get an abrasion, might get burned, might even catch fragments or a ricochet, but at least I won't be firing straight into my leg.

A GOOD IWB does not require you to "shoehorn" or force your gun in. It won't collapse when you draw the gun. Straight in, straight out. If you're having to wedge the muzzle in crooked to pry the holster open each time -- your holster SUCKS and could get you seriously hurt.

Unless you are very large, you really shouldn't have anything more than a sliver of your body in front of the muzzle as you're re-holstering.

 

[WestKentucky]

Rule #1 is broken constantly. How can a person possibly carry while not pointing the gun at himself or those near him? Unless you are carrying on top of your head with muzzle up your breaking rule#1.

A close friend of mine had a ND at work about 18 months ago. He is a crop consultant and carries a xd 40 cal with good defensive ammunition. He carried in an xd-gear holster on his right hip. His ND happened when reholstering. His expensive fancy tactical belt got into the trigger guard and when he shoved the gun down into the holster the trigger was pulled by the belt and the gun discharged. The hydra shock went through his wallet and right butt cheek, exited the butt cheek and re-entered in his left leg near the knee exiting on the left side of his left calf.

 

[boatdoc173]

so cool you have the beretta-wc brigadier--how did you get one so soon? I am on the backorder list an d have to hope no one @ my ffl accidentally sells it before I get there--LOL

how do youy like it? can miss with beretta and wilson combat doing the assembly--cant wait for mine to come!!!

 

[jim8115]

I might be the only one, but I holster my CCW before I get dressed. When I'm ready to put my holster on, I touch the holster and not the gun at all.

I also holster the gun then put it on when using IWB. I do practice drawing, but not re-holstering. I just pull the holster, re-insert the gun, then stick it back in my waistband.... No big deal. i am not a cop, i wont be needing to have my hands free to handcuff a badguy or anything

 

[AustinTX]

so cool you have the beretta-wc brigadier--how did you get one so soon? I am on the backorder list an d have to hope no one @ my ffl accidentally sells it before I get there--LOL

Boatdoc, are you asking me this question (assuming you saw it in my sig)?

I'm cheating -- I added them prematurely. I've ordered and paid for them and am anxiously waiting like a six-year-old on Christmas Eve for the second batch of 250 pistols to arrive at Wilson and then my FFL in the next two or three weeks. I'm not one of the lucky folks who already have theirs in hand, though. When did you order yours?

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

So you never train with your CCW gun in a manner that involves drawing it and then reholstering?

I never understood training to reholster a IWB CHL in any practical manner. If you ever need your CHL in real life, you probably just ended up shooting someone. You'll be dropping your gun on the ground when the police show up. Holstering up is irrelevant.

Never understood the rush some people are in to put the gun back in the leather. The race is on the other end of the deal.

 

[Sam1911]

There's lot of reasons why you might need to re-holster a hot gun. There's no possible way I'm NOT going to practice doing so, and doing so safely.

I don't really plan on "dropping the gun" after a defensive encounter. That might have to happen, but there's lots of other ways the scene could play out which don't involve that specific movie cliche.

I might need to operate doors, provide aid to someone, make a phone call, or just stand around for 15 minutes waiting for the police to arrive. Unless the threat is still needing to be covered, or I'm uncertain about accomplices, I've no need to do all that with a gun in my hands.

I never understood training to reholster a IWB CHL in any practical manner. ...
Never understood the rush some people are in to put the gun back in the leather. The race is on the other end of the deal.

And so then, how in the world do you practice and train? We all accept (I think) that training and practice is going to involve thousands and thousands of reps of drawing and engaging a threat. You gonna take off your holster and belt every time? Don't know how many trainers will have a lot of patience for that. Gonna be hard to explain to the Safety Officers at your local IDPA match.

Naah, you've got to reholster and have to learn to do it well.

 

[AK103K]

Drawing and reholstering are as much a part of carrying/using a gun, as shooting it is. Its all part of the same thing. If youre uncomfortable doing that, then maybe you shouldnt be carrying a gun.

Just like constant dry fire helps you with your shooting, constant drawing and reholstering practice, helps you to safely do that. Doing so, ingrains the proper moves to get the gun into play, and safely back into its holster. It needs to be as well ingrained into your subconscious, as it is in your conscious thought.

If you have to think about drawing or reholstering, then youre in need of more practice. Im not saying to not think about it while youre doing it, simply, that you should have done it enough in practice, that you are able to do it, without thought.


Also, the type of gun is irrelevant. If its what you choose to carry, you should already know its manual of arms intimately enough, to carry it safely.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

I've no need to do all that with a gun in my hands.

Many of those things can be done with the support hand. The others can be done after making the firearm safe and dropping it. Trust me, the police are going to make you drop it anyways when they get there. At least this way you can lay it nice and gentle on the grass instead of five foot bouncing it on the pavement.

And so then, how in the world do you practice and train?

Mostly with Safariland ALS stuff, but the Bladetech WRS has been working our real nice and might replace it.

Gonna be hard to explain to the Safety Officers at your local IDPA match.

It would be, if I shot AIWB at IPDA... But, it'd be real hard to stick that CZ Phantom AIWB...

Don't know anyone that shoots IPDA AIWB. Probably because it's against the rules to do so.

 

[jim8115]

There's lot of reasons why you might need to re-holster a hot gun. There's no possible way I'm NOT going to practice doing so, and doing so safely.

I don't really plan on "dropping the gun" after a defensive encounter. That might have to happen, but there's lots of other ways the scene could play out which don't involve that specific movie cliche.

I might need to operate doors, provide aid to someone, make a phone call, or just stand around for 15 minutes waiting for the police to arrive. Unless the threat is still needing to be covered, or I'm uncertain about accomplices, I've no need to do all that with a gun in my hands.



And so then, how in the world do you practice and train? We all accept (I think) that training and practice is going to involve thousands and thousands of reps of drawing and engaging a threat. You gonna take off your holster and belt every time? Don't know how many trainers will have a lot of patience for that. Gonna be hard to explain to the Safety Officers at your local IDPA match.

Naah, you've got to reholster and have to learn to do it well.

Its not like we cant re-holster the gun the way we described it , it is just a bit slower