IWB Revolver

[230therapy]

RE: Clip holster

Is there any way to reverse the clip? Put the tab up...and it will never come off unless you unbuckle the belt and work it off.

Also keep in mind that the metal clip will mess up the finish of the belt.

 

[Warp]

Ah yes, the voice of inexperience. Since I primarily carry (and shoot, barring .22lr, of course) .357 magnum, I can tell you that there are factory loads that will do close enough from a 2.25" bbl vs a 4" bbl as doesn't matter. I carry Georgia Arms 158 gr Speer Gold Dots, and I've chrony'd them at 1150 from my 2.25" SP101 vs. 1250 from my 4" GP100. The 158 gr SJHP Remington's are pretty similar.

Also, if you haven't carried either gun, why are you trying to advise the OP on carrying either one? That's not helpful.

As far as the hammer issue goes for IWB carry, I carry my SP101 at my appendix. This is probably the worst location with regard to the hammer digging into my belly. Guess what: it's not an issue. I experience more discomfort from the rubber grips chafing my skin, and that's easily alleviated by wearing an undershirt. Same goes for the 4" GP100, except that the barrel typically pokes into my thigh, and the grips jab my ribs. Neither of these are an issue with the smaller SP101.

I carry the SP101 in one of these: http://www.elitesurvival.com/index.php?p=product&id=28

I think it's a size 9, but I've had it so long that the writing on the tag has faded. The holster material is still strong, though.

I can also carry the GP100 in that rig, if need be. However, I prefer the Simply Rugged Pancake with IWB straps. Well worth the cash!

I used to own a Glock 27. I carried it in an IWB rig similar to what I use for the SP101, as well as a Fobus holster. Didn't like it, so I sold it. Too thick and blocky, printed too much, and performance wasn't what it should have been from the 3.5" bbl.

Also, the GP100 is more concealable than the Glock 27 FOR ME. Fits my body better, whereas the Glock just wants it's sharp little edges to stick out all Teutonic-like and whatnot. The SP101 is waaaaay more concealable than the Glock 27 FOR ME, and more concealable than the GP100.

Just FYI, OP, from personal experience and experimentation.

...so, more power from the 4" barrel than the 2.25". That may be a good reason to carry a longer barrel.

The GP100 being more concealable for you than a G27 is something I cannot wrap my head around. I hope to try for myself (GP100 vs G26) but the IWB holster I have on order is a Milt Sparks so, uh, maybe in 7 months I'll know.

 

[willypete]

Sorry willy, I don't care if you spent $50.00 on it and watched an Amish woman hand-sew it from a panel of level III Kevlar right in front of you. That holster fails on nearly every count for what a holster is intended for.

Holsters serve several purposes, the chief among them is to keep the gun secure and accessible.

That holster, and almost every other one like it, fails to do that. The gun will shift, move, and not be in the same place as when you put it on in the morning when you reach for it, right at the time when you need it most, later that day.

I've seen those holsters show up in classes, and with new guys at IDPA matches. They are horrible. During the course of a match, and especially during the course of a 2 day shooting class, a competitor/student will invariably draw the gun and the holster draws out along with it at some point during the day.

Most instructors I know won't allow them in a class. And we'll generally allow a new shooter to show up to an IDPA match with one, so as not to turn him away unhappy. But afterwards he's told to go buy something secure and not bring it to the next one.

Have you ever carried an SP101 appendix style with the holster I mentioned?

 

[David E]

A belt holster, IWB or OWB, should be stable, maintaining its position AND orientation all day without the wearer adjusting it. The clip holster shown won't.

A belt holster should allow a full firing grip while the gun is still in the holster. The clip holster shown does not.

A belt holster should allow smooth one handed reholstering. The clip holster shown will not.

There are other requirements of a good holster, but these are good ones to start with. If an SP-101 is used in such a rig, you might be able to acquire the firing grip, but the holster still fails the other two requirements.

It doesn't matter if Dad used it or one just like it, if it has 18K gold stitching, or uses pterodactyl wing membrane to form the gun pouch.

The only thing that counts is performance. It may be comfortable to carry, but that matters little if it won't allow the user to access and draw the gun quickly and reliably under stress.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Have you ever carried an SP101 appendix style with the holster I mentioned?

In my lifetime I've been fortunate to see nearly every holster design come through my club. I've not seen a single, solitary holster that uses a clip designed like that one right there that wasn't worse than worthless when I or the shooter tried to use it on the range.

Now, I have seen some secure clip designs that have a very distinct, well-designed lip that comes out and back up on itself. It actually hooks under the belt and catches it from beneath. That solves the problem of drawing the holster out with the gun.

It's still a floppy, unsecure design.


Use it if you want. But don't expect to show up in a class or attend an IDPA match with one. We're nice here at our matches, and let new shooters run through their first time out if it's all they have. But they are told to come back with something else next match.

 

[fastbolt]

I used to carry an issued 4" M66 and then later a 4" M686 off-duty in IWB holsters. Ditto some various Ruger Security/Service/Speed-Sixes I owned and used as off-duty weapons.

That became tiresome after several years.

I switched over to carrying either an older (.38 Spl) M649 Bodyguard and a SP101 DAO 2.25" IWB, and it was a marked improvement in comfort by the end of a long day. Even though I used good quality holsters, all of the medium, full-size revolvers required more than a T-shirt in order to realistically conceal them during my normal activities, motions and exertions.

Sure, you could drape a loose, baggy T-shirt "just right" to make it seem to cover a revolver grip while standing straight and still in front of a mirror, but things changed once you started moving around, the shirts got sweaty and breezes blew through. I've seen my fair share of cops who thought they were adequately concealing smallish off-duty weapons under a T-shirt when using a "tuckable" holster or some other type, but I never had a problem seeing their weapons print.

Bear in mind that the rubber/synthetic grip stocks of revolvers can grab at concealment garments, pulling it this way & that at inopportune moments, potentially compromising concealment.

When carrying medium & large frame revolvers I just about always had to "dress around" the weapons, regardless of the holster design (although IWB holsters could sometimes mean the difference in being able to wear a short-waisted jacket).

I also used to look for security and retention in the holsters, too. Concealment is moot if the holster won't safely secure the revolver, and remain in the necessary position on the belt. Presentation & reholstering were (and are) important considerations, too, regarding both accessibility and safety.

Belt clip holsters? Tried a bunch of them over the years. Never found one that served as well as a belt loop holster. Not the sort of compromise I found acceptable as time passed.

There's been some improvement in bullet design in the major revolver calibers over the years since revolvers were "king" in the LE field, and I'd be less inclined to worry about velocity if one of the better designed JHP's, designed to offer good ballistic performance within realistic velocity windows, were being used nowadays.

I still have a couple of medium-framed .357 Magnum revolvers, but I seldom carry them anymore. They get some range use, but remain in the safe most of the time. Instead, my assortment of 5-shot J's see the brunt of the duty as revolvers carried as retirement weapons. Even my SP101 DAO sees more range use than carry use (the weight being the reason).

If I were going to carry a .357 Magnum revolver as a belt gun again, though, it would most likely be a 3" SP101. Nice balance of power, weight and a more compact size. Maybe a pristine M65 3" if I could come across one someday ... or ever talk a close friend out of one he built back at the factory back when you built a revolver during a revolver armorer class and got to buy it.

Just my thoughts.

Luck to you in your decision ...

 

[igousigloo]

I was carrying a Kimber ultra carry II and decided to try a Ruger SP101 3". It was a lot heavier. I tried a Taurus 905 and that was much better. I think Kimber in winter and Taurus in summer. I use a Blackhawk IWB with two belt loops on it. It stays in place when I draw.

 

[willypete]

A belt holster, IWB or OWB, should be stable, maintaining its position AND orientation all day without the wearer adjusting it. The clip holster shown won't.

Yes, it will.

A belt holster should allow a full firing grip while the gun is still in the holster. The clip holster shown does not.

Yes, it does.

A belt holster should allow smooth one handed reholstering. The clip holster shown will not.

I disagree with you on this point. It adds unnecessary requirements (and thickness) to a holster, and really serves no purpose. I prefer using two hands to re-holster, because the second hand allows you to feel any protuberances that may contact the trigger or other controls of the handgun.

There are other requirements of a good holster, but these are good ones to start with. If an SP-101 is used in such a rig, you might be able to acquire the firing grip, but the holster still fails the other two requirements.

Again, no, it doesn't.

It doesn't matter if Dad used it or one just like it, if it has 18K gold stitching, or uses pterodactyl wing membrane to form the gun pouch.

You're sarcasm is about as pertinent as your absolute statements, and as indicative of your attitude.

The only thing that counts is performance. It may be comfortable to carry, but that matters little if it won't allow the user to access and draw the gun quickly and reliably under stress.

Agreed! However, I'm fairly comfortable assuming that you've never carried an SP101 in that particular holster model, and may only be familiar with cheaper "gun show specials." I attempt (and fail, at times) to limit my commentary to items that I've used and tested, because conjecture can be use than worthless when one tries to gives one's opinion on an item that one has never used or become proficient with.

In my lifetime I've been fortunate to see nearly every holster design come through my club. I've not seen a single, solitary holster that uses a clip designed like that one right there that wasn't worse than worthless when I or the shooter tried to use it on the range.

Like, but not the actual holster? That's similar to saying iron pyrite is "like" gold, or that a child's cap gun is "like" a real gun.

Now, I have seen some secure clip designs that have a very distinct, well-designed lip that comes out and back up on itself. It actually hooks under the belt and catches it from beneath. That solves the problem of drawing the holster out with the gun.

It's still a floppy, unsecure design.

No, it surely isn't. Again, I've used this holster, and I can tell you from personal experience that it's a solid, useful design. I encourage you to look more closely at the pictures, and you'll notice that the clip does hook over the belt and prevent movement. I can also tell you that the clip is strong enough to be painful if you insert your finger under it.

Use it if you want. But don't expect to show up in a class or attend an IDPA match with one. We're nice here at our matches, and let new shooters run through their first time out if it's all they have. But they are told to come back with something else next match.

Quite frankly, you could have just answered my question with "Yes," or "No." "No" seems to be what your answer should have been, and I understand your antipathy toward a design that you've never used and don't trust. However, what I don't understand is your inability to read and understand statements of someone who has actually used the equipment combination mentioned, and is experienced with it.

This combination works, is safe, and is stable and reliable. That's really all that matters.

 

[Sam1911]

I prefer using two hands to re-holster, because the second hand allows you to feel any protuberances that may contact the trigger or other controls of the handgun.

Just a quick comment on this one point:

That's a big no-no. I see it frequently and spend serious time with each new shooter who's falling into this trap. (Technique?)

There are pretty well-established "best practices" for drawing and holstering a sidearm, [strike]even[/strike] especially a concealed one. If the support hand is used at all it would be to lift pull-over type cover garments (sweaters, sweatshirts, etc.) that must come up to clear the holster, and then the support hand is above the firearm and flat against the body, out of the way.

When the holster is soft and collapses it causes one of two things to happen.
1) The shooter gets his support hand involved in opening it back up to nose the muzzle back into the holster mouth. This, rather obviously, means that the support hand is in front of the muzzle of a loaded firearm. That's a disqualification if I catch it during a match or range session -- and a DQ is the LEAST worrisome negative result of that mistake.

(I see this often with the old "thumb-break" style retention holsters as well -- though there are easy techniques to use those appropriately so your support hand stays correctly out of the picture.)

2) The shooter realizes that he should keep his support hand away from the business end of a 'hot' weapon, so instead uses the muzzle as a pry-bar or shovel to try to dig into the holster mouth and wedge it open. This generally involves a sort of circular prying motion that inevitably has the shooter "sweeping" nearly half his body, from his foot up to his pelvis what as he tries to shoe-horn the gun back into his collapsed holster.

Again, that's a HALT to the day's shooting activities and an invitation to go home and re-think safety procedures.

I've known several shooters who made one mistake or another and ended up allowing their sidearm to fire while they were attempting to re-holster. If they'd been "muzzling" their gun back into a collapsed nylon holster, they would have almost certainly died instead of receiving relatively minor injuries attendant to firing the gun straight down through the holster.

As for using the support hand to feel around for obstacles -- again, WHAT? Keep your flippin' hand out of the way! If you're gripping the gun so that your trigger finger is straight and along the frame just above the trigger, you will feel all you need to feel without endangering yourself.

I won't tell you what holster to buy (well, I will, but not here ) but I will tell you that no matter what your background and how many years you have of successfully skirting disaster -- needing two hands to re-holster a handgun is a problem you need to fix.

No matter what we know, or think we know, we all still have important things to learn.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I carry a 3" SP101, with a hammer spur, IWB at 4 o'clock in a Galco holster. It conceals fine under a fleece or sweatshirt. I imagine it would under a tshirt as well. In a proper holster, the hammer spur shouldn't be an issue. The grip is the major concealment problem when carrying IWB. A GP100 has a much larger grip than a SP101 and would be harder to conceal. In summer I choose to pocket carry a different gun since I tuck my shirts in and the SP with a 3" bbl is a bit hard to pocket carry, unless you are buying pants with realy deep pockets.

 

[aHFo3]

I've been carrying a dao sp101 for a month or so in a Crossbreed Supertuck while typically wearing shorts and a t-shirt. The holster design puts leather between you and in my case, where the spur isn't, but an sp101 with a spur wouldn't dig into me, but it may print occasionally. Since you're wanting this for cold weather carry I'd upsize to the gp100 and use something like what Crossbreed offers. Good luck.

 

[Lucky Derby]

For the most part I am going to stay out of this holster debate, except to say: DO NOT USE TWO HANDS TO REHOLSTER YOUR FIREARM! This is an extremely unsafe practice.

 

[Skribs]

aFHo, I'm wanting it for warm weather carry, not cold weather.

When I have my hoodie on, my XDm conceals just fine.

 

[Warp]

When the holster is soft and collapses it causes one of two things to happen.
1) The shooter gets his support hand involved in opening it back up to nose the muzzle back into the holster mouth. This, rather obviously, means that the support hand is in front of the muzzle of a loaded firearm. That's a disqualification if I catch it during a match or range session -- and a DQ is the LEAST worrisome negative result of that mistake.

Can you tell me how to reholster my pistol into an IWB concealment holster without having the muzzle point at my leg while doing so?

 

[Sam1911]

Can you tell me how to reholster my pistol into an IWB concealment holster without having the muzzle point at my leg while doing so?

Straight up to draw, straight down/in to holster. There may be some very minor covering of your fleshy bits as you holster, but you should minimize that always.

An errant shot through the holster will almost certainly cause damage, but shouldn't be fatal.

Some of these guys digging the muzzle in to open up a collapsed holster are getting the gun nearly one a 45 deg. angle (or worse!) and sweeping their pelvis, femur/femoral artery, knee, and other critical parts.

Remember, safety is a layered process -- finger off trigger AND don't put anything in front of that muzzle you can't afford to have liquefied.

That's a big part of why a good IWB holster -- a safe holster -- needs to be a rigid design that will allow you to reinsert the gun without digging around with that muzzle. When you draw the gun, the mouth of that holster should look just like it does when the gun is still in it.

 

[willypete]

Sam1911: we're discussing IWB carry. By its nature, there will be garments covering the holster. The method of IWB carry I was mentioning was appendix carry, which I've found almost always ends up with a gun either pointing at my groin or my leg while carried, inserted, and drawn. Also, if one makes a "C" shape with the fingers and thumb of the left hand and cups these around the top of the holster while inserting the gun from the opening of the "C", one will avoid sweeping one's fingers with the muzzle of the gun.

 

[Sam1911]

The correct procedure for reholstering a sidearm in an IWB holster is no different if the gun is carried at 1-2 o'clock (appendix) or in the more traditional 4-5 o'clock position.

Well...actually, I'd say the issue of digging around with the muzzle to shoehorn the gun back into a collapsed holster is actually WORSE with appendix carry, but dead is dead, so I'm not sure how much worse it's likely to be.

 

[willypete]

I'll say it again: carrying appendix style will almost always result in a muzzle being pointed at a body part. Arguing about method of insertion, holster construction, or holster rigidity is irrelevant. I'm not sure who you've witnessed re-holstering a pistol to IWB appendix, but I don't have to "dig around with the muzzle to shoehorn the gun back in". It's a very simple operation of pinning the shirt up with the off-hand forearm, opening the holster lips with the thumb and forefinger, and inserting the gun from the side, and pushing down.

 

[Sam1911]

How the gun rides when secured in the holster and how the gun is oriented while drawing or re-holstering are usually two different things. The most dangerous time is not when you're sitting in your car or a restaurant booth and the gun's muzzle is resting on your leg, but when your hand is on the gun and you're manipulating it. That's when accidents occur (and have occurred to friends of mine, who are Expert-class shooters who absolutely did "know better"). When you're re-holstering is a critical moment with potentially tragic results. The greatest possible care should be exercised and any equipment selection that helps you avoid a less-favorable, more risky method of operation is wisdom itself.

I have not observed you doing this. I have observed a great many others. I was aware when I first posted that I might not change your mind about the wisdom of this or that there are better practices which avoid the pitfalls you dance with. As is often the case, however, I present information which I hope will help others who are reading or will read this thread in the future to make the best choice they can.

I do hope you are eternally careful and remain safe.

 

[aHFo3]

Skribs, sorry I got it backwards. I carry my spurless sp101 in a Crossbreed Supertuck at about 4 o'clock. The holster is adjustable for height. I have mine riding low, and if the gun had the spur it be at the level of my waist band which may snag.

I prefer DAO for carry revolvers because I'm not going to take the time for SA shooting when the time comes to defend myself. In my carry guns I train DA, I test ammo Da, so I have no use for the single action option.

I don't know if I could pull off summer carry with a gp100. Also, like you I prefer blued guns, but I really like how the ss gun holds up to my sweaty onslaught.

 

[David E]

Having some 35 years of gun and holster experience, the last 23+ being on a daily basis, you experience, observe and learn things.

Willy, Clip-on, collapse-on-the-draw holsters suck. Maybe yours sucks less, but suck it still does.

There are much better holsters out there, maybe you'll discover that one day.

Here's hoping!

 

[BullfrogKen]

Willy, I'll end the debate over your holster now.


You're special. Your holster is special. If it were anyone else, it would simply be just another sucky, poorly designed holster. But you've got gold there. Enjoy it.

 

[willypete]

Sam: thank you. I hope everyone remains safe, as well.

David E: I have a few holsters that are molded leather or kydex, don't suck, don't collapse on the draw, and cost a few dollars less than that nylon holster, or a few hundred dollars more. I'm not advocating nylon holsters as the end-all, be-all, but if you get a quality one, it's not going to suck.

BullfrogKen: Thanks! The nylon actually is gold plated, and the spring clip is studded with crystallized unobtanium and made of forged barsoomium. However did you know?

 

[David E]

"Quality IWB nylon holster?"

There's an oxymoron if there ever was one!!

 

[Skribs]

Well I didn't see any quality holsters at the store that fit my new gun, so I bought a $15 nylon one to hold me over.

I'll be carrying it in my pocket or mexican-style until I get my new holster (getting one like the one I have for my XDm). It's not worth the drive down to return the one I bought.

Oh, should have mentioned - got the 3" SP101. I'm keeping the original grips on it for now, the only ones I would change it to would be if I could find something like what's on the S&W carry guns (kind of like the hogue grip for the SP, but not as thick). I'm keeping the hammer spur for now, mainly because I'm too lazy to get it removed.