Jericho, effectiveness of hasty militias

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I would presume that Hawkins would have pre-zeroed all the rifles at 100 yards to 200 yards. He's just that kind of guy. I can keep them in the black at 100 yards with a rack grade, pre-zeroed MBR with milsurp ammo. As far as their traning, presumably they don't have time to train everyone before the attack.
 
It's the lack of time to train thats the annoying part, they have had 4 or 5 months to get organized and trained. In 4 to 5 months I am sure you could get a decent company sized unit up and going, especially using prior vets as a core unit. You can take conscripts and weld them into an effective fighting units in 8 weeks, faster if you are pushed. They have massive columns of hungry people moving in the country side headed south for warmer climes and they don't think to set up strong points and point defenses?

Another thing, why aren't they growing stuff in green houses? You can grow vegetable crops in boxes with glass on top with very little effort and reasonable yields. It's a town full of farmers......
 
If your just going for MOB ~ 100 yards couldn't you just bore-sight all the rifles?
That would save a ton of ammo for the upcoming battle.

And while its a town full of farmers... they are farmers made up by Hollywood elitists so they are OBVOUSLY ignorant and retarded etc. IE nothing like real resourceful farmers that I know.

-DR
 
...

To all the nay sayers in this thread.


The show has gotten better, it was a little shaky for the first half of the season, but since then it has gotten better.

The season finale is this Wednesday, tune in. it seems like it may be the best episode yet from the previews. Even if you haven't seen the show before tune in for the season finale.


You guys are always complaining how the movies and shows are anti gun, but now that there is a pro gun show..... You nit pick at it and refuse to watch it:confused:
 
Lets not forget, Hawkings has an AI and has shown he can shoot at some range. There are others with deer rifles and such that can add some range to the fight. What I'm figuring have your "infantry" in some make shift earth works, with "marksmen" about 100 yards behind them in camo positions. The "infantry" would just lay lead to keep the BGs down while the "marksmen" pick them off at will.

Of course, the writer will have Jericho winning, That how I figure it will happen.

P.S. Wouldn't it be really cool if we got some street fighting in this episode!?!?
 
Lack of time to train. Lacochee, you expect to much. The town had very poor leadership the first few months and nothing was really accomplished. I bet this is much more realistic than a General Patton rising up suddenly and taking charge.
 
For those who want to catch up

http://www.cbs.com/innertube/player.php?cat=115191&vid=&format=&auto=0

There is a lot of gun wierdness on Jericho, but I suspect that they have contracted with some prop house that has a color catalog, and the director just thumbs through it and picks guns from there. It is cool that the local sherrif/mayor's department had a rack of M-1 carbines, fits well with Johnston's background, plus for a while the US military was giving them out to local police departments, I can definately see Johnston Green having the attitude of 'hell yea we'll take 10, 20 if you can spare em!'

However, I suspect that it was just the director flipping through the catalog, saw a gun with a wood stock and a blued barrel, saw the company had listed they had 10 of em, figured it would work good for some of the early scenes, and looked less military than the ARs or AKs to his uneducated eyes.

Same with some of the scenes vs Blackwater. Some guys at the blocade had lever action rifles, but they weren't Winchester 94 lever actions in 30-30, they were henries and yellowboys. Unless the locals who had em were into Cowboy Action Shooting, that just didn't fit....except when you figure the prop company has got some correct for cowboy erra lever actions and that is what gets picked out of the catalog.

Hell, even in this latest episode, Other Brother (I cannot ever remmber his name) is riding around as a scout with an over-under shotgun slung across his back, *** is that? Take a hacksaw to it, use it as backup, then get yourself one of the many hunting rifles you see Johnston Green has.


Somehow a while back a FEMA camp of refugees erupted in violence, and a group of people got ahold of some military uniforms, radios, some guns (but barely any ammo) and a tank (which of course makes no sense) and went around faking it to get food. Jericho was almost fooled, but ended up with the tank. (no ammo for it)

I really expected to see the tank appear and run the mortar unit over. Even without it's own weaponry, a tank driving around in your formations is going to have the same effect as elephants did to the bronze age armies.

Old Dead Grandpa Green appears to have been quite wealthy, and somewhat of a survival nut himself. Apparently in preporation for a USSR attack, his grandsons were trained to identify military aircraft by airborne silloette. I was really hoping we were going to see 2 stockpiles of weapons this episode. I was hoping Johnston Green would have nodded acceptance of the deal (or better yet say "All right I can agree to the all gas all trucks all guns, but NOT the mortars, they aren't going to be of any use to out there, they are only good for attacking an entire town, and if you plan on doing that, well, we'll fight you right now about that") Then say 'Jake, other Brother, go get some shovels we got to go dig up under the floorboards of the horsebarn' Hawkins then asks for jakes assistance first.

Greens seem the type to me to have a few crates of WWII surplus mausers burried somewhere. That would have been a great scene, Johnston Green pulls back a tarp revealing 4 crates covered with dirt, pops one open to reveal 5-10 mausers or mosin-nagants. Then Hawkins and Jake pull up, "We got some guns too!" and pulls back his tarp revealing handguns and evil black assault rifles.

Of course, I thought the amount of handguns Hawkins had stockpiled was kind of silly. I can understand a few, but really, for every handgun you stockpile, that is one less SKS you COULD have stockpiled. Have enough handguns for your immediate family to have as sidearms, but when you are stockpiling to arm a militia in TEOTWAWKI, rifles rifles rifles


Now us highroaders I am all sure if somehow caught without our personal firearms would be clamoring for the AR-15s in hawkin's stash, but once those ran out and he started handing out pistols, we'd all say 'no thanks, I am going to go get one of those mausers Green is handing out!'
 
Howdy folks. Well, I like the show, I've watched it since day one. There are rumors it's getting cancelled, and I hope not.

Say what you want about the stupidity. I've seen it too, such as the episode where Jake and Hawkins infiltrate the mortar factory, and Jake whirls around with his gun pointed out, sweeping right at Hawkins as he turns.

However, to me the show is pro gun. It enforces the fact that everyone will need to have weapons to survive if such a scenario ever happens. I find it entertaining and will continue to watch.

As for the thread, I would agree it would be better to have your untrained citizens defending the town with rifles than with baseball bats.
 
I thought the amount of handguns Hawkins had stockpiled was kind of silly.

Did you miss the "what's in your safe" thread here on THR a few months back. A few of our members could rival Hawkin's handgun stash, maybe even beat it.
 
In last weeks episode, they killed off some residents of the other town during the battle. I am waiting for the reisdents of Jericho to be issued Soylent Green.
 
helpless see Akodo's link or this one http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/

lacoochee there was a brief mention of someone growing beets or turnips in a bathtub. I guess it was just meant to convey that people were growing their own food as much as possible.

But hell yea a pro-gun TV show, where they are pro CIVILIANS having guns, how can anyone not support it? Damnit tell your friends! ;)
 
I've also been watching from the beginning, so pardon the nerdity.

Despite what the first show says, I've estimated (based on what's seen in two shows and mentioned in another) that Jericho has, at most, about 2000 people in it. I can go into detail how I came by that number if people want. Jericho being smaller than the "official" population of 5000 fits better with how they've acted through the series, IMHO. Frex, it explains their noticible lack of expertise (military, medical, etc.) that you'd expect in a larger population.

Regarding Hawkins' stash - remember he was planning on meeting up with other compatriots in Jericho - it was the "rally point". It makes sense for him to store items like handguns for them as well.

The tank is not necessarily out of ammunition. We know it's out of gas, but to say it has no ammo implies two things. First, the tank never had ammo issued to it when sent to the camp. But there's no good reason to send a neutered tank if you anticipate hostilities, and if you don't anticipate hostilities then why send a valuable, fuel-hungry machine that's essentially worthless? Second possibility, it did have ammo and the fake Marines shot it all. But at who? There's no point in killing people you're trying to scam, and they never mentioned a firefight where they had to use it. Who knows if they even knew how to fire it - they were all civilians.

I think it is entirely possible that the tank still has main gun ammo and maybe even coax ammo as well. All they need is fuel - a lot of it. I hope the season ender proves me right! TANK BATTLE! :D

I think the gun handling is decent, especially when you compare it to your typical TV show. Honestly, the thing that sticks in my craw most is not the gun stuff, but the premise that they're all starving in the middle of western Kansas! When you've got counties with average populations of a few thousand producing millions of bushels of wheat and/or corn annually, I have a hard time seeing them not able to feed themselves from local sources at least until spring.

Still, I think it's a good show - and sure as hell could have been a lot worse. Count your blessings.
 
Ok, maybe I am dating myself but when I was a kid there was a TV movie called "The Day After" (1983) and no, not "The Day After Tomorrow" for all you youngsters. It sounds very similar to Jericho with one major difference- a little thing called fallout.

So my question is- how is the theme of radiation fallout or "nuclear winter" addressed in Jericho?

Anyone read "On the Beach?" By the end of the book, these guys are stuck in a submarine after WW3 realizing they are dead once they come up for fresh air.
 
I've watched the show only a few times, have not followed it closely. Having grown up in a rural/ small town environment, the idea of two towns forming their own militias and killing each other seems ludicrous to me. High school football rivalries are one thing, slaughtering each other is something altogether different, especially when most people have many friends and family in the next town over.

In my experience when bad things happen (natural disasters, tragedies, etc) most Americans pull together, especially in rural America. Towns forming militias and killing each other sounds like something out of medeivel Europe.

My brother-in-law was killed in a farming accident in Nebraska last fall, the outpouring from the community was amazing. There are a lot of good people out there. Tragedy can bring out the best in people, as well as the worst (like the cold-blooded vulture funeral director who ripped off my sister by obsenely overchargeing for the funeral).

Back to the show; I have watched it occasionally and enjoy it for what it is, unrealistic entertainment. I am a little offended though, to think that this is what Hollywood thinks 'country folk' are like. I also wonder about the original premise of who did the nuking. Not having followed it closely, is it the sort of 'right-wing conspiracy' that would make Rosie O proud?
 
Fallout depends on the type of device used. The fallout might have fallen to non dangerous levels in as quickly as a few days depending on the bomb.

They were also quite far from the closest bomb (at least 200 miles). With a ground burst (as these were truck bombs) the pattern is greatly reduced also.
 
Hey that reminds me, the town does have a tank.

What are they using for fuel and spare parts, and do they have anyone who knows how to maintain it?

It will run off distilled alcohol, but consumes 3-7 gallons of diesel per mile... consumption of alcohol will be higher due to lower energy density, at least double.
 
buck00 said:
Ok, maybe I am dating myself but when I was a kid there was a TV movie called "The Day After" (1983) and no, not "The Day After Tomorrow" for all you youngsters. It sounds very similar to Jericho with one major difference- a little thing called fallout.
So my question is- how is the theme of radiation fallout or "nuclear winter" addressed in Jericho?

In maybe the second episode or so they were worried about fallout. They all went inside at the time. I recall a bunch of characters coming out, and one of the women wondering what the dust all over was, and a male character replying; "that's Denver."

Titan6 said:
Fallout depends on the type of device used. The fallout might have fallen to non dangerous levels in as quickly as a few days depending on the bomb.

That is probably the best explanation for Jericho.
I generally enjoy the show. I got a little crazy at the last episode when the first group of rangers went after the mortars, and they were broadcasting "in the open" over radio. :banghead: New Berg probably has radios, too, guys!!!!:fire: :neener: If you can't get encoded radios, which is a possibility I do have sympathy for, atleast code your voice transmissions by saying things like "King's Rook two to white fox, pitchforks at zulu bravo 1 niner." or something like that -- better yet, don't be broadcasting anything. The fact THAT YOU'RE BROADCASTING might be enough for the New Bergians to glean some info!
Yeah...they made some other boo-boos. I suppose it's realistic in that they are amateurs at war (townsfolk) and won't be all Rambos first time out!;) :scrutiny:


fatelk said:
Not having followed it closely, is it the sort of 'right-wing conspiracy' that would make Rosie O proud?

The nature of the conspiracy that launched the attack was a little bit ... "hazy" to me, and IMHO not well thought out by the writers of the show. It seemed a conglomerate of RW "militia" types and others who normally don't cooperate...neonazies, that ilk.

akodo said:
There is a lot of gun wierdness on Jericho, but I suspect that they have contracted with some prop house that has a color catalog, and the director just thumbs through it and picks guns from there. It is cool that the local sherrif/mayor's department had a rack of M-1 carbines, fits well with Johnston's background, plus for a while the US military was giving them out to local police departments, I can definately see Johnston Green having the attitude of 'hell yea we'll take 10, 20 if you can spare em!'
...
Same with some of the scenes vs Blackwater. Some guys at the blocade had lever action rifles, but they weren't Winchester 94 lever actions in 30-30, they were henries and yellowboys. Unless the locals who had em were into Cowboy Action Shooting, that just didn't fit....except when you figure the prop company has got some correct for cowboy erra lever actions and that is what gets picked out of the catalog.

I did see that, and some of the locals had bolt rifles, and I recall an M-1 Carbine in that scene. Didn't think it was all that bad. I own a Repro 1873 Winchester, a repro Colt SAA, and other BP revolvers, and I don't do cowboy shooting sports. But if I was in that particular situation I wouldn't, of course, bring those, I'd bring my Bushie M4orgery and modern handguns. But maybe the guys with the Henrys brought those 'cause that's what they had....;)
 
^^^^
(Potential vague spoilers if you haven't been watching Jericho.)

I remember the movie, especially John Lithgow as the annoying nerdy science guy in Lawrence, KS. (Lawrence was one of the cities that got hit in Jericho. I wonder if that was meant to reference "The Day After".)

There was no full-scale nuclear exchange in Jericho (that we know of, at least). About a dozen US cities were hit in a terrorist attack, and there may have been a retaliatory strike against... someone.

In the second or third episode (the first few eps kind of blur together), the residents of Jericho took shelter from a storm that carried fallout to the ground from the nuke that hit Denver. From what I remember from my physics and nuclear courses, most fallout would be nuclides with a short half-life; after a couple weeks, it should've been safe to come out, anyway.

Later on, we learn that Jericho was chosen as a rally point for Hawkins' group after the attack, because prevailing winds wouldn't carry much fallout to Jericho, and the water table would also be unaffected. We even see mapped projections of such in his underground lair--I mean, basement.


I kind of like the show. Not necessarily for its dumb moments, but because of the discussions it's prompted with friends. (Much like this thread; there's been a lot of "if they have an amateur radio station, shouldn't they have a lot more information?", and "what would be the best way for a town to defend itself from a group like Ravenwood?", and of course, the more generic "what on Earth are they thinking?!" Plus, who would've imagined that CBS would air a show that didn't end this postapocalyptic town-vs.-town conflict with a "guns are bad. can't we just sit down and settle our differences over a cup of tea?" message?)
 
Magic candles

I'll tell you what I'd like from Jericho since I already have most of what else I would need :rolleyes:

I'd like some of those magic candles that they've been burning by the bushel full for 9 months!

Mine don't last nearly as long.
 
In my experience when bad things happen (natural disasters, tragedies, etc) most Americans pull together, especially in rural America. Towns forming militias and killing each other sounds like something out of medeivel Europe.

Donner Party... In all seriousness, when lives are on the line everything changes. I find stories about people on life boats the most interesting, because after a while the closest relationships become meaningless. I read a true story about a bunch of people in the South Pacific during WW2, and saw another on TV ('I Shouldn't Be Alive', iirc) with a smaller group of people, also on a raft. One important thing to remember is that after long deprivation, the last action of most people (in the WW2 case at least) before they died was almost always to try and kill everyone else, by pulling the plug in the boat, or trying to capsize it. Also when a Japanese destroyer was trying to rescue survivors of the Yamato during WW2 one guy would grab the rope thrown down, and then a bunch of other guys would grab onto him and pull them all down under the water.


They were also quite far from the closest bomb (at least 200 miles). With a ground burst (as these were truck bombs) the pattern is greatly reduced also.

It's ground-bursts that cause fallout. They throw dirt up, and it falls.

If you can't get encoded radios, which is a possibility I do have sympathy for

I know little, but I believe you can make a directional antenna by blocking part of it off, perhaps with tinfoil - like a satellite dish.


From what I remember from my physics and nuclear courses, most fallout would be nuclides with a short half-life; after a couple weeks, it should've been safe to come out, anyway.

Gamma radiation burns the brightest, so to speak, so burns the shortest. It's Gamma that penetrates skin and ionizes. Alpha and especially Beta stay around long after the bomb, but they can't penetrate skin or clothing. So the problem arises if you ingest the fallout, or get it in your eyes or a cut or breath it, because then it ionizes you from the inside out in a bad way. That's why farms are supposed to scrape of the top layer of soil.
 
So my question is- how is the theme of radiation fallout or "nuclear winter" addressed in Jericho?

Jericho is the only place in the immediate area which is bypassed by the wind currents flowing through the areas of detonation - or, so the story goes. Probably a scientific improbability, really.

And I've seen The Day After (even though it was made when I was 1)... what a harrowing film. There were also a lot more nuke detonations of larger size in that film than there were in the Jericho universe, IIRC, which would have an impact.

One plot potential they've not touched on yet is those "team members" of Hawkins rallying to Jericho. IIRC, he wasn't clear on whether the team members were from the terrorist cell, or from the government group he was working on - not that it makes much of a difference at this point, because the leader of both groups appear to be that old bald guy. I imagine they'll save that for Season 2, if it ever comes about.

Re: the Blackwater scene and the resulting evident invasion of New Born that resulted in the current season's culminative plot: how realistic is it that Blackwater would just drive up to a roadblock and wouldn't take another route around? They were only a scant dozen or so strong - certainly a group small enough to be taken out quickly and easily, and seemingly not large enough to cause as much damage as they did at New Born.

I wonder if the name of the show, Jericho, was at least a little bit alegorical in reference to the Biblical city of Jericho, which was defeated after God made the walls fall down? That may be an indication as to why they've not had Jericho mount any solid defensive efforts. Damn Philistines and their pacifism! :p

They need to hire me as a writer for this film. :p I've been pissed off whlie watching the film because a lot of the accurate scenarios and the things they're doing right are a minor subset of what I've written in a book I'm working on... I could so surpass the script quality. "No, Director! You need to give these people real fighting weapons, not hunting weapons! And scenario x and setting y is completely implauseable, we've got to change that!"
 
The fallout issue is really addressed later on. A few episodes back, when Hawkins is telling Jake everything, we find out that Jericho is the rally point for the CIA agents that were going after the terrorists. Jericho was chosen as a "safe" area due to expected prevailing winds and that area not being expected to be covered by radiation clouds and massive fallout.

They got a little in episode 2 or 3 from Denver but it was within safe limits according to the Geiger counter they pulled out of the fallout shelter under town hall.

EDIT: I really should read all the posts before posting :)

I wonder if the name of the show, Jericho, was at least a little bit alegorical in reference to the Biblical city of Jericho

If you watch the interview shows available on CBS's streaming TV thing that is talked about. The interview made the reference as well, but they didn't say if it would end up being some kind of plot point or just a trivia thing.
 
Both air bursts and ground bursts create fallout. A ground burst creates more over a more localized area. An air burst creates less but it will move higher into the atmosphere, be released over a greater area (maybe globally). Again the type of bomb is more important.
 
"No, Director! You need to give these people real fighting weapons, not hunting weapons!

But aren't hunting weapons more realistic for a town like Jericho? Not all ordinary citizens have military style fighting weapons. I sure don't own any.

I would think hunting style firearms would be by far the most common.
 
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