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Jews + "Never Again!"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by twoblink, Oct 3, 2004.

  1. twoblink

    twoblink Well-Known Member

    I'm fairly curious, (I'm not Jewish, nor do I play one on TV)..

    BUT... I would have assumed that since Hitler,SS,Concentration Camps, "Get in the Shower" and other phrases that are utter horrors of the Holocost are taught to your children if you are Jewish, and to your children's children, etc..

    How is it "Never Again!" is not known to any of my Jewish friends (that aren't on THR..)..?
  2. FPrice

    FPrice Well-Known Member


    "How is it "Never Again!" is not known to any of my Jewish friends (that aren't on THR..)..?"

    Despite what this question may assume (please don't take this as a slam insinuating that you are biased - it's not) Jews, like any other group are not a monolithic, homogenous group of people. Aside from their shared religion they have many other widely varying attributes which can define their view of the world. They may be liberal, conservative, libertarian, middle-of-the-road, or any other variation of political leaning. They can be devoted to their religion or entirely divorced from any religious practises.

    It is my guess that the further removed from the European Jews who bore the brunt of Hitler's "final solution" and with the passage of time, many of these terrors are fading to insignificance in some Jews.

    Yet others remember and have vowed never again.

    I would ask you to think of your own heritage. IIRC you are Asian. Suppose someone asked you why all Asians did not think alike on some subject, what would you say to that?

    While someone outside a group may think that all in that group share some characteristics or feelings, that is not always accurate. Given a large group there are bound to be tremendous differences from person to person in thoughts and actions.

    Again, please don't take this as a slam against you - it's not. I'm just trying to answer your question the best I can.
  3. AF_INT1N0

    AF_INT1N0 Well-Known Member

    I know that not all Jews, or any group think alike. But having genocide carried out on your particular group, (and Hitler was not the first, hopefully the last). Is pretty darn universal. There are certain Ideals that would seem to be prevalent, and not allowing your kids to be killed by some government hardliner seems pretty commonsense to me. It would also stand to reason that people trying to take away your means of defending yourself against these A-Holes would be met with a great deal of hostility.

    Of course the latter goes for any group.

    You don't have to be homogenous to follow basic instincts.
  4. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Well-Known Member

    People in general have very short memories.
    Remove them a few generations from any kind of persecution and bingo.
  5. Roon

    Roon Well-Known Member

    An interesting commentary from the Boston Globe.

    I don't think you need to be registered.
  6. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    None of my friends who are both Jewish and Gunny, (I've got several) understand or can explain why the trend of American Jews is towards liberality and tend towards gun bigotry.

    When they query their brethren, the answers are the typical "it can't happen here" dodge.

    Of my friends who are Jewish and non gunny, they personally tend towards explanations like "guns are OK for problems that actually exist, like predators on a farm, but aren't useful for self defense, and the notion of fending off the US Army is preposterous."
  7. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Well-Known Member

    Because the Holocaust happened in Europe, not here, because persecution against that particular tribe of mankind has been the norm forever it seems and thus, is accepted, because to stand up and fight is all icky and is more physical than intellectual.
    (Sorry for all the generalizing stereotypes if I've offended anyone from any race or religion.)

    I've got four friends who are Israeli and they and their sons ALL have a totally different outlook on self defense. These guys were all IDF and saw various elephants from '67 on. All have one or two serious personal defense weapons at home and I would not care to cross any one of them.

    So maybe its a "BTDT" vs. "Never BT, Never DT and can't even imagine thinking about doing violence to protect me and mine" sorta thing... ya think?
  8. True, but some groups seem to have a higher % of members who try to remember. The Irish diaspora around the world is a good example. Many still note the famine, coffin ships, Easter rebellion, etc.

    Of coures the ongoing troubles in N. Ireland are a constant reminder to many.

    The U.S. St. Patrick's day parades are another reminder. They're an embarassment to some with their schlock and drunkenness, but serve a valuable purpose as an easy reminder of the past.

    It's difficult to believe that most Jewish people aren't aware of the phrase "never again"
  9. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Well-Known Member

  10. KMKeller

    KMKeller Well-Known Member

    Denial and an idealistic believe that American is the one place in the world where that kind of thing can never happen. Also, self hatred.
  11. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    As an alum of a Jewish school (Chicago-Kent College of Law, founded when Jew were not allowed into University of Chicago or Northwestern), I asked my fellow members this exact question. The answer I received was always this, "we are in charge here. It could never happen to us here." Yet at the same time they were always expressing shock and horror at anti-Jewish violent crimes in Chicago, in the news, or how Christians were just waiting to put them in camps.

    I always offerred to take my fellow students shooting. They always looked at me like I offerred them bacon.:D Heck, when I offered to teach them boxing or grappling, I got laughs.

    Call me a really confused goy, but I have never understood the support the Jews give to persons who would render them defenseless victims.:uhoh: :confused:
  12. Roon

    Roon Well-Known Member

    I think this belief is held by most Americans, and certainly by all of the antis. We here believe the Second Amendment wasn't added to preserve deer hunting, and, as a result, we are derided.

    What's that old saying, "Freedom isn't free!"
  13. winstonsmith

    winstonsmith Well-Known Member

    This Jew was taught a militant "Never Again" even before he was a gunny.

    I was also taught this gem:

    If not this way, how?

    If not me, who?

    If not now, when?

    If I am not for me, who will be?


    Never again.

    I will take responsibility for my own freedom, thankyaverymuch.
  14. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Well-Known Member

    My family lost members to rampaging Cossacks in pogroms in Poland.

    I've visited Dachau and seen the ovens and the gas chambers (it's claimed that the gas chambers were not used there. Sure.) I lost relatives in the Holocaust.

    THIS Jew is armed to the teeth. I take "Never again!" very seriously.

    You want my guns? Come and get 'em.
  15. DesertEagle613

    DesertEagle613 Well-Known Member

    I think much of the problem is that if you accept the premise of "Never Again," you must also accept the responsibility for self-defense and preparation that goes with it. Many of our "softer" brethren seem pathalogically incapable of doing so, so they just ignore the issue or rationalize it away.

    That said, if SHTF, I will gladly defend them anyway (though I hope that they would see the light once the bullets are flying).
  16. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    It can happen anywhere.
  17. E36M3

    E36M3 Well-Known Member

    Famous last words in WWII Germany were: "We're Germans first. It can't happen here.". Jews that don't live by the "Never Again" code aren't Jews. Anti-gun Jews are the single dumbest group of people on this earth. And the leaders of gun-control, Jewish or otherwise, are the greatest ally of the future Hitler.
    I'm seriously considering having "Never Again" tattoo'ed across my back. Tattoos aren't permited in the Jewish religion so this would be quite a statement, especially on the beaches of Margate and Ventnor, NJ.
    The KKK/Nazi rally in Valley Forge on Yom Kippur last week was proof that it can and probably will happen again. Anyone who's ever looked down on me because of my Conservative views will pray that I'm at their side if the SHTF. I'm not willing to share a foxhole with any of them, though, so they'll likely be SOL.
    I hope that someone can help rid me of my very bad attitude. It can't be healthy.
  18. Rabbi

    Rabbi Well-Known Member

    Rabbi Mier Kahane, who started using the phrase "Never Again" in his book, was the founder of the Jewish Defense League. In his later years after emigrating to Israel, he became so radical that he turned off many American Jews who initially supported him. He became a proponent of the wanton and random killing of all Arabs and Muslims. The Rabbi went off the dep end. The J.D.L. is now headquartered in Florida I believe and has been inherited by extremists and if I'm not mistaken, is now listed by the State Department as a terrorist organization.

    I have never understood Jewish liberals either, and I have tried but there are a LOT of us who are right-wing gun owners and firmly believe in the idea of "Never Again". It has been my signature for four years and my philosophy for forty years. Genocide is always a threat, anywhere and some of us will not walk humbly to the ovens, praying.

    Some of us are rather old and a bit infirm, but firearms are indeed "liberty's teeth".


  19. Roon

    Roon Well-Known Member

    I remember telling one of my old and dear friends, a Jew and a liberal, about the need to defend oneself. She dismissed me. I then sent her a link to JPFO. Her response, "Oh great, skinhead Jews!"

    I'd still work to protect her. Some folks just don't get it.
  20. Croyance

    Croyance Well-Known Member

    My question about "Never Again" is why there are few statements released condemning genocides of other people. I understand not having the resources to do something about each of them, but a simple statement looks reasonable to me. From the country of Israel or large groups is what I mean. Certainly individuals hold their own opinions.

    Many who have personally seen the violence of war as a civilian don't want to be around guns. It is easy to condemn, as a civilian in a peaceful country or a soldier. I don't agree, but I can see how a person would not want to be around what they see as a tool of destruction.
    The connection to Liberalism makes sence. In the beginning of the Civil Rights movement, blacks and Jews worked together. The promotion of a more egalitarian point ot view would work to the advantage of a group that has traditionally been in the minority. The viewpoint promotes future safety.
    However, Liberalism (with the big 'L') also means pro gun control. Funny to me, since I believe liberalism (small 'L') is about personal freedoms within the framework of society.

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