bluestarlizzard
Member
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...12/05/texas-shooting-joe-horn-s-911-call.aspx
anyhoo, whats ya'll's .02 cent?
anyhoo, whats ya'll's .02 cent?
Joe Horn's 911
- Thread starter bluestarlizzard
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M2 Carbine
member
From what I've seen nothing Horn did was illegal.
I would have done the same thing myself but with less talking to the 911 operator.
911 dispatchers are not qualified to give legal advice and they can keep such opinions to themselves.
I would have done the same thing myself but with less talking to the 911 operator.
The hell it isn't.
911 dispatchers are not qualified to give legal advice and they can keep such opinions to themselves.
bluestarlizzard
Member
no, this is some dude who was taking care of his naighbors house while they where on vacation. he saw some guys robbing the house and called 911. when they wouldn't send the police, he shot the BG's with a 12 gauge. and for the record, he didn't break any laws by doing so.
i want him to watch my house when i go on vacation!
i want him to watch my house when i go on vacation!
Hard one to call, it'll take a lot of Texas lawyering to sort this out.
I don't know why he needed to confront them though, seems like telling them that he was calling the cops & showing them his shotgun while they were still attempting to break in would have prevented this.
I don't know why he needed to confront them though, seems like telling them that he was calling the cops & showing them his shotgun while they were still attempting to break in would have prevented this.
BobbyQuickdraw
Member
I've put my .02 down a few times, so this is my dime.
When taking into effect the Castle Doctrine, the Right to Self Defense, and the Right to 3rd Party Defense, and also the right of Citizens Arrest, what Joe Horn did seems legal to me.
The 2 were in the middle of a felony and after confronted turned to approach him, presumably with violent intent. Joe Horn then shot and killed them.
I call it Good Shooting.
When taking into effect the Castle Doctrine, the Right to Self Defense, and the Right to 3rd Party Defense, and also the right of Citizens Arrest, what Joe Horn did seems legal to me.
The 2 were in the middle of a felony and after confronted turned to approach him, presumably with violent intent. Joe Horn then shot and killed them.
I call it Good Shooting.
chipperi
Member
If I am not mistaken (I dont live in Texas) I believe in TX it is legal to shoot an intruder/burglar... since he was left to care for his neighbors property, he should be 100% legal. I saw on the news a little while ago both were illegals with criminal records who had been previously deported...BUT... Houston's mayor and police chief are felons themselves for aiding as Houston is a "sanctuary city"
Pappy007
Member
Here is the latest...
http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou071204_tnt_pasadenaburglars.69d89aae.html
http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou071204_tnt_pasadenaburglars.69d89aae.html
bogie
Member
Well, to my untrained ear, the ol' boy sounded pretty eager to go out and start blasting. That isn't what we need. Remember - your boomstick is NOT a multiuse tool. It won't fix everything. Cops showed up right about the time he shot 'em. Good response. By going outside and shooting them, he took a chance at getting injured or killed by them himself - Last I looked, live witnesses are better than dead ones...
Mongo the Mutterer
Member
Beatnik
Member
He sounds pretty eager to go out and start blasting THIEVES.
I gotta tell ya, if Texas had seasons, and you didn't have to drive 8 hours to get to the grocery, I'd probably live there.
bogie
Member
Regardless of whether it was legal, it was a piss-poor public relations move.
fletcher
Member
He shouldn't have told the dispatcher about going after them so much, that might come back to get him in court.
Otherwise, awesome.
Otherwise, awesome.
Not awesome.
Fired 3 shells just to stop two guys; only stopped one of 'em.
Resisted LE when told to get on the ground (if you listen in the recording, you can hear the cops telling him to get on the ground).
Willing to shoot everything and anything that crossed his path.
They all talk about "gun control."
Where's the owner control?
Fired 3 shells just to stop two guys; only stopped one of 'em.
Resisted LE when told to get on the ground (if you listen in the recording, you can hear the cops telling him to get on the ground).
Willing to shoot everything and anything that crossed his path.
They all talk about "gun control."
Where's the owner control?
bogie
Member
Regarding the dispatcher - I'm guessing they were typing as fast as they could - I don't think they've used a lot of talking to "dispatch" for 10-15 years or so...
Yesterday, there was a guy parked in the driveway next door. He was throwing stuff from the garage into the back of a pickup as fast as he could. _I_ knew he was cleaning the house up for sale, since the previous owners had pretty much trashed it, but if Bubba had decided that he had hisself a burglar...
Yesterday, there was a guy parked in the driveway next door. He was throwing stuff from the garage into the back of a pickup as fast as he could. _I_ knew he was cleaning the house up for sale, since the previous owners had pretty much trashed it, but if Bubba had decided that he had hisself a burglar...
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Again and again I remind everyone that these 2 guys were shot in the front, not the back.
Kinda hard to claim they were running away when they were not shot in the back.
Kinda hard to claim they were running away when they were not shot in the back.
Pappy007
Member
I started posting here as the thread was closed over on;
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=396398#post396398
Pappy
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=396398#post396398
Pappy
XDKingslayer
member
"Right" is subjective, "legal" is not.
If I have to dismember a burglar to protect my family then I will do so. In the end there is no difference between using a chainsaw or a firearm. The result is still a dead burglar and a safe home.
Thinking there is a morally "right" way to kill someone in self defence is setting yourself up for failure when the time comes.
NASCAR_MAN
member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2007
- Messages
- 179
"Legal" doesn't mean "right."
It might be perfectly legal to dismember a burglar with a chainsaw. Does that mean you should do it?
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I agree 100% Walton: "Legal" does not mean "Right". Most of all, I always try to do what's "Right".
Now, if Joe Horn did shoot those guys while they made a "move" at him - then he was "Right".
NASCAR
It might be perfectly legal to dismember a burglar with a chainsaw. Does that mean you should do it?
===========================================
I agree 100% Walton: "Legal" does not mean "Right". Most of all, I always try to do what's "Right".
Now, if Joe Horn did shoot those guys while they made a "move" at him - then he was "Right".
NASCAR
Now, here's my .02. What Joe Horn did was not illegal when reading Texas law regarding use of deadly force. He also had implied authority by the owners of the home to protect their property. This could be his Ace in the hole in court. However, what he did also was not LEGAL until decided on by the court system. I've said this before on this forum. There is a difference between "not illegal" and "legal". Not illegal means you get to go to court and spend money to defend yourself if it is found that there is reason to do so and you are indicted. The factors that will come into play here are his demeanor at the time of the incident and afterwards and his conversation with the dispatcher. We can hooray all we want about these very bad people being taken off the street (by the sound of the follow up investigation into the Colombian crime ring) but the perps backgrounds will most likely not be admissable because Joe Horn could not have known this at the time of the shooting. They will only factor what he could perceive was taking place against what occurred. Now, don't be confused. I'm 120% a right to self and property defense person. I think that what Joe Horn did was fine in it's concept. I just think he went about it in a wrong way and should have kept his mouth in check. I understand adrenaline and the situation had something to do with the events, but that's why you as a CCW holder (I'm not implying he was, I don't know) should do more than just take the class. Take more classes. Watch videos from respected instructors. READ THE LOCAL AND STATE LAWS YOURSELF. Be the most educated person you can be carrying a firearm. And for goodness sake, don't be recorded doing it.
NASCAR_MAN
member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2007
- Messages
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"Right" is subjective, "legal" is not.
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I disagree. "Right" is hard-wired into our brainstems - it is only through the disuse of righteous force that our hands have palsied (so-to-speak) and we're unable to tell the difference between "Right-and-Wrong".
In other words:
[The disarming of citizens] has a double effect, it palsies the hand and brutalizes the mind: a habitual disuse of physical forces totally destroys the moral [force]; and men lose at once the power of protecting themselves, and of discerning the cause of their oppression.
-- Joel Barlow, "Advice to the Privileged Orders", 1792-93
===================================
I disagree. "Right" is hard-wired into our brainstems - it is only through the disuse of righteous force that our hands have palsied (so-to-speak) and we're unable to tell the difference between "Right-and-Wrong".
In other words:
[The disarming of citizens] has a double effect, it palsies the hand and brutalizes the mind: a habitual disuse of physical forces totally destroys the moral [force]; and men lose at once the power of protecting themselves, and of discerning the cause of their oppression.
-- Joel Barlow, "Advice to the Privileged Orders", 1792-93
bogie
Member
Guys, the simple fact at hand is that it is VERY likely that this incident is going to get castle doctrine overturned in the court system for Texas. And that'll spread around the country. Why?
The ol' boy just sounded too damn ready to light 'em up. He had his tool (boomstick) and was ready to use it. He didn't stop to think that he was talking on another tool.
If I'm at work, and I hear someone break in upstairs, and start carting stuff out, I'm (a) going to grab my downstairs gun; and (b) call the cops. I can replace stuff. I can replace a LOT of stuff for what the ol' boy's legal bills are going to be. So, I'll sit tight. And as long as the folks don't come downstairs before the cops arrive, fine. If they do, well, I'll worry about that if it happens.
The ol' boy just sounded too damn ready to light 'em up. He had his tool (boomstick) and was ready to use it. He didn't stop to think that he was talking on another tool.
If I'm at work, and I hear someone break in upstairs, and start carting stuff out, I'm (a) going to grab my downstairs gun; and (b) call the cops. I can replace stuff. I can replace a LOT of stuff for what the ol' boy's legal bills are going to be. So, I'll sit tight. And as long as the folks don't come downstairs before the cops arrive, fine. If they do, well, I'll worry about that if it happens.
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