just came back from europe... thoughts

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ka50

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I just came back from european country.

I was amazed... people walk around at night and are not afraid! Wow... and guns are illegal too.. so what gives?

I was thinking about it a lot... I'm not racist. I believe in diversity. But what stuck me was mostly cacuasian population and minimal police! Why can't I walk in America at night in some park and not be afraid of being assaulted?

I was thinking about it... not to sound racist, but I notice a violent trend among African-Americans and Hispanics. America is too diverse for everyone to get along, IMO.

Thoughts?
 
depends on where the park is

i can walk around int he aprks at night all i want and not be afraid
I live in a rural area

Urban areas are full of poor peole and crime
most urban areas are full of minorities

color of skin doesnt make someone violent
to belive so is stupid
its poor people who have nothing to lose from commiting crimes
theres more poor black people than white peopl
plus "urban culture" doesnt help either

but even if you're not trying to sound racist you're coming off that way

ka50 said:
I just came back from european country.

I was amazed... people walk around at night and are not afraid! Wow... and guns are illegal too.. so what gives?

I was thinking about it a lot... I'm not racist. I believe in diversity. But what stuck me was mostly cacuasian population and minimal police! Why can't I walk in America at night in some park and not be afraid of being assaulted?

I was thinking about it... not to sound racist, but I notice a violent trend among African-Americans and Hispanics. America is too diverse for everyone to get along, IMO.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Lyndon Johnsons war on poverty and the welfare system for the last 40 some odd years have a lot to do with it.

Money for nothing... less money if there is a father present.... the building of housing projects with no "ownership"

My dad grew up poor and hispanic, had to fight his way to school everyday and had to deal with all of the nasty evil stuff that comes from living in and around housing projects.

Difference was.. he had a family structure that did not tolerate ignorance, laziness, criminal activity and excuses.

In my opinion..ignorance and crime begets ignorance and crime.

It takes a strong family to break the cycle.


The destruction of the family unit, the advent of one parent households
and children running loose with no guidance other than gangs and street thugs has a lot to do with poor inner city people being more prone to crime.
 
ka50 said:
I was amazed... people walk around at night and are not afraid! Wow... and guns are illegal too.. so what gives?
Click to expand...

You weren't in London, were you? Even with the HUGE amount of cameras, the city's residents are brazenly attacked and mugged. The stories by its residents describe quite the opposite atmosphere, and Londoners are becoming increasingly enraged at the problem.

As far as the lack of diversity, Europe has a reputation for segregation, too. Groups of people are homogenous by nature, and tend to live amongst like peoples, be it racial, economic, social status. Not all segregation is forced. Amnity within, emnity without. . . .
 
Its not a race thing and it isnt a gun thing. Its a cultural thing that varies a lot within europe and within america.

I have lived in:
NYC- which was dangerous as hell during the 70s and 80s but now you could walk around harlem at 2am and probably not get mugged. Everyone has jobs and all the crackheads are gone.

Baltimore- was dangerous as hell if you left the heavily policed university and wealthy person areas. But you could pass out drunk on the pavement and not have your wallet taken if you were in the safe area. Since I couldnt carry a gun, I avoided the hanging out in the ghetto. But there was nothing for me to see there, so it wasnt a big deal.

SF bay area- didnt really feel dangerous at all. Everything is expensive as hell and heavily policed. You cant safely drive a used car let alone commit crimes in many areas. Pulled over so many times. Oakland and Hayward are relatively high crime, but I had a gun when I lived there (in addition to nothing worth stealing), so I wasnt really worried. No one ever bothered me. I would actually say that the poor areas were nicer because the cops actually had real crime to fight and wouldnt harass me in my rusty car.

Florida- doesnt really feel dangerous at all. Not really much in the way of policing or crime, though the rich old-person areas like pinellas are starting to heavily resemble the ritzier areas of the SF Bay Area. I wouldnt go into certain areas of tampa or st pete at night without a gun, but I always have a gun, so it isnt a problem. Lol negroes.

Even in the relatively high crime areas in america, there isnt really that much danger unless you hang out with crackheads. I wouldnt cruise certain neighborhoods in this country without a gun and in some places you cant carry a gun legally, so you just avoid those areas.

Europe has pretty much the same mix of nice and dangerous areas from my experiences. I've visited England, France and Spain a few times.
 
Interesting how telling the truth makes you sound racist. In and of itself, is this a racist statement too? :rolleyes:

I am on the emailing list of a major univerity in the area concerning public safety. Their security service is obligated to report all crime activity on campus or involving students or staff. Roughly half the crimes are committed by Hispanics and the other half by blacks. No exception. Over several years, I have not seen a SINGLE report about crimes committed by Asians or whites. Here we are talking strong-arm robberies, burglaries, thefts, sexual assaults.

How is that statistic for size?

Admitting that there is a problem is the first step to fixing it. Denial solves nothing.
 
Yep; what country? And exactly what part of that country? I have lived in two euro provinces and traveled alot in a half dozen more for periods of 8 and 9 years. Even going back to the late 1970s there were some particular parts of some euro provinces that were already starting to become the target of "multiculture", often very unpleasant places to live - and definately not places to walk in certain areas of town at night or leave your doors unlocked at home. On the otherhand, I could indicate many areas I am certain are as you describe to this day .. for now.
-----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
CAnnoneer said:
Interesting how telling the truth makes you sound racist. In and of itself, is this a racist statement too? :rolleyes:

I am on the emailing list of a major univerity in the area concerning public safety. Their security service is obligated to report all crime activity on campus or involving students or staff. Roughly half the crimes are committed by Hispanics and the other half by blacks. No exception. Over several years, I have not seen a SINGLE report about crimes committed by Asians or whites. Here we are talking strong-arm robberies, burglaries, thefts, sexual assaults.

How is that statistic for size?

Admitting that there is a problem is the first step to fixing it. Denial solves nothing.
Click to expand...

Good Point
 
I don't think you can broadly characterize that way. I've been to Europe as well and as long as you stay in the boundaries mostly frequented by tourists you won't see much crime. Unless you know the area, you have no clue where the higher crime areas are whether it's here in the US or overseas.

I myself live in an area that's generally considered very safe and low crime. However, I can walk 4 blocks south of my house and be in an apartment complex where a fatal drug-related shooting took place three months ago. Two blocks west of that there was an armed stand-off with the police about a month ago. Neither of those areas are any more predominantly racial and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between those areas and mine unless you were familiar with the local area.

The point here is, broad characterizations may or may not be completely accurate. Certainly not accurate enough for me to determine whether an area is risky or not.
 
Agree with DunedinDragon. Very rarely have I ever worried about wandering out at night, but then usually I'm local enough to that area to know where I am generally safe and where I am not. For instance where I live now, no problems at all, but literally four hundred yards away then I'd be much more careful. Interestingly you pass through a largely 'ethnic' area and out the other side before you get to the rough area, which is largely white.
 
I live in a city of about 12000. Ten years ago street crime was almost unheard of, (meaning muggings, rape and random assaults) burglary and drug crimes were uncommon (although I think the drug problem was just not reported).

We then had an influx of Blacks coming into the area, Not much changed, except the drug issues became much more prominent.

Recently (last 2-3 years) we have had a major influx of Hispanics, since then the incidence of muggings stabbings and people generally being robbed and threatened on the street has shot up. We now have gangs, who do more than hang out an do drugs... they go out and rob people for fun. These gangs are predominantly made up of hispanics.

The problem is that the gang lifestyle is being imported to us smaller towns by these "immigrants" from the big city. Is it a racial problem... I don't think so, rather it is the types of people who are moving here. Recently it has been those with the thug/gang attitude, making the streets of the city much more dangerous. (I've carried a gun for the last 5 years, I'm now starting to think that my chances of actually needing it are going up)
 
Tourist areas are pretty safe in Europe, but there are plenty of unsafe areas just a few blocks away. Think of it as very similar to Washington, D.C. You are quite safe in Washington at the Library of Congress or the Vietnam Memorial, but go a few blocks east and you are in one of the most dangerous areas in the USA.

It is also true that most violent crime in both places is committed against other criminals, and law-abiding folks are generally pretty safe. In my little rural county almost all the murders in the 21 years I've lived here have been drug dealers killing other drug dealers. In fact, the only one I can think of that wasn't was the sheriff, who was drunk and was killed by his equally drunken wife in a domestic fight.
 
I was amazed... people walk around at night and are not afraid! Wow... and guns are illegal too.. so what gives?
Click to expand...
I take it you didn't spend much time walking around (or leaving your car parked on the street) in the suburbs around Paris? They were in the news recently . . .
 
beerslurpy said:
Florida- doesnt really feel dangerous at all. Not really much in the way of policing or crime, though the rich old-person areas like pinellas are starting to heavily resemble the ritzier areas of the SF Bay Area. I wouldnt go into certain areas of tampa or st pete at night without a gun, but I always have a gun, so it isnt a problem. Lol negroes.
Click to expand...

You didn't go to South Florida, then. Especially around Miami. A few blocks from Coconut Grove and it starts to get scary, and besides Overtown and Liberty City, which you might well not get out of, there's whole swathes of areas of abandoned shopping plazas and boarded-up 1950's suburbs houses with people going furtively in and out of them (and you know what that means), where hearing a few distant or nearer sharp *pop pop pop*'s isn't at all unusual.

There's a lot of areas of Miami and the adjoining cities, Hialeah especially, that I wouldn't go into after sunset with anything short of a 9mm, with an extra mag, at that.
 
No matter what race, if you feel threatened maybe you should be more open, stand up in your community, be visible, be helpful, be a man. Alot less peole see you as a victim if you look them in the eye.
I grew up as a white kid in a Mexican neighborhood in California (no guns for my family). My family was neighborly to everyone they met, I was rarely (not never, but rarely) messed with because I have never failed to look people in the eye. My sisters and my mother were never troubled growing up, and I grew up in Modesto, CA (little mexico).
I think the "them and us" attitude hurts all of us. Teach your kids to see the differences in people but never dwell on them. Crime is there all the time, we won't change that, and announcing regularly it does not fix anything.
Sometimes shaking someones hand speaks louder then screaming "THAT SH-- DOESN'T FLY AROUND HERE!" There has never been a shortage of tough guys and badasses, call their hand. If that doen't work, well, I'm a member too and we ALL know what to do then...:)
We are all Americans, if my race was responsible for 100% of crime in my city I still wouldn't be a criminal.
 
If the powers that be really want to reduce crime, they know what they have to do: crush gang culture with an iron fist. And the blissninnies have to deride the spread of this subculture through the entertainment media instead of rationalizing its existence or, worse, glamorizing it.

Guns--of law-abiding citizens--are the easy target.
 
I'm unsure of what type of conversation you're trying to stir up here, but somehow I'm bothered by your remarks.

I just came back from european country.
I was amazed... people walk around at night and are not afraid!
Click to expand...
Your observation may be valid for certain areas in which you spent time; however, I've been to many, many places in several European countries where people don't walk around at night, and if they do, they should be afraid. I've seen, by the way, many U.S. citizens -- servicemembers -- accosted, mugged, beaten, even raped and in one case, killed -- in at least three European countries (France, Italy and Spain).

But what stuck me was mostly cacuasian population and minimal police!
Click to expand...
While undoubtedly, you stuck to tourist areas which are typically the Caucasian strongholds ...

I have witnessed ethnic violence in France and Germany. I have been in Spain while ethnic violence was occurring, though not witnessed it. I have witnessed virulent anti-Arab and anti-African sentiment in France; I have witnessed virulent anti-Turk sentiment in Germany.

I have spent time in Bosnia. Ever heard of it? You want to know about ethnic problems in Europe?

not to sound racist, but I notice a violent trend among African-Americans and Hispanics.
Click to expand...
Gee, you left out Asians.

I notice a violent trend here in this country among young white people. Particularly those involved with the use and production of methamphetamine. I also notice a violent trend among people living in economically-depressed urban areas with high unemployment rates, regardless of race.

You do sound racist.
America is too diverse for everyone to get along, IMO.
Click to expand...
So long as everyone keeps the focus on diversity, and our differences, without regard to our other common conditions, we shall have problems getting along.
 
When I was in Frankfurt a couple of years ago I met many people that went out, drank, and stumbled home in the city without fear for their safety. It simply did not enter their minds to be concerned.

I looked up the crime stats per capita on Frankfurt and found it to be as high as many other U.S. cities.

My conclusion: the unconcerned Frankfurters are merely naive. It has a lot to do with what their government tells them on their state-run televisions.
 
longeyes said:
If the powers that be really want to reduce crime, they know what they have to do: crush gang culture with an iron fist. And the blissninnies have to deride the spread of this subculture through the entertainment media instead of rationalizing its existence or, worse, glamorizing it.

Guns--of law-abiding citizens--are the easy target.
Click to expand...

I agree that law abiding gun owners are easy targets of politicians, but disagree on crushing gang culture with an "iron fist" (wasn't that a quote from Stalin?)

Gangs simply cannot be outlawed and movies cannot be censored without violating the First Amendment.

The solution (my opinion) is to cut of the source of revenue funding the gangs - massive reform of the nation's drug laws. Gang-bangers simply could not make any money selling drugs if Pfizer was doing it.

Freedom: what a concept!
 
Its not that everyone is caucasian, it's because of a homogenous culture that is in a state of rest. Europeans have a fairly decent economy at this time (at least in terms of stability) and in places where people have a similar cultural outlook it is unlikely that there will be any deep seeded strife.

Move over a few thousand miles to the east and you can find Moscow with a crime rate that actually dwarfs New York city, this is because of economic turmoil. Much of the African continent suffers from a combination of economic trouble as well as cultural conflicts between the vastly splintered factions in much of the area. These are the things that breed crime and violence.
 
Fletchette said:
My conclusion: the unconcerned Frankfurters are merely naive. It has a lot to do with what their government tells them on their state-run televisions.
Click to expand...

Or, the alternative thesis is that the levels of crime experienced in Frankfurt are not really enough to make people wet themselves at the mere thought of the outside. In a roundabout and idiotic way perhaps the only good point that Moore made was about fear of crime.

The media gets it either way - either they drum up fears about crime way beyond reality, or they allegedly under report it.

I'm sure you've all heard about a friend (of a friend) who went to Europe once and got mugged on the way off the plane. Some of those stories are no doubt true. And likewise, I've heard stories of Europeans setting foot in the US and being mugged too. Only person I've ever met who was carjacked was not carjacked in the UK, but on holiday in the US.

When I went to Durham I was told that university students were routinely beaten up by locals, yet I never had so much as a funny look thrown my way in four years. I was told that 'Windy Gap' (amusing name eh?) was a dangerous place at night, and yet I used it routinely at night.

Whilst I was there a student was killed in a fight (fell or was pushed down a bank during a fight) Did his experience or mine make the better headline? Well, I was never interviewed about student-local relations, and he made a few front pages, so I guess he won there.

When it comes down to it I believe that it is perception of crime that informs our actions. I don't perceive that Kidderminster (at least where I live) is a hotbed of crime and I don't worry about walking the dog in the dark. Some do, and are paralysed by the fear of crime, and I'm sure that these people live on the same street as me.
 
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