K98 mausers unpeened - good deal?

[BluesDancer]

Hi THR,
Is the following a decent deal for $439.00 + shipping?

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000102&dir=700|701|1381

"German K98 Mauser with unpeened Markings: These Rifles are in very good condition . Insignias are in tact(see pictures) and have not been peened out like you will see on some versions. These are early model K98's and mostly from early to mid 30's. Nazi Germany did not start using the swastika coat of arms markingson the K98 until the late 30's, so most of these just have the early 30's Weimar Eagle. these rifles have the bent bolt handle. These do have the Import markings. It appears the stocks of these rifles match the receivers numbers however not all parts numbers are matching. Don't miss out on your chance to own a historic piece of history."

 

[Ron James]

Never mind, deleted.

 

[tahunua001]

considering the price I'm guessing that these are probably not in as good of shape as pictured. I have not seen a german K98 for less than a grand in a long time. I'm thinking missing parts, poor finish and kracked, rotton, shrunken stocks.

 

[Numeric]

These are cheap because they're almost certainly Russian-captured refurbs, not veteran bring-backs. The Russians didn't always deface the German markings, even the explicitly Nazi iconography. I have seen RCs with nothing removed, and some with just the swastika in the Reichsadler peened out. The Russians usually stripped the rifles to barreled actions, re-blued the metal parts, re-finished the stocks, and assembled working rifles from the piles of spare parts. The parts were then force-matched to the receiver via electro-pencil. Therefore you will often see rifles with a mix of pre-early-and-late war parts.

 

[CLP]

I've bought one of those. Good quality- a shooter, but not really collectible. The main deterrent is that they're electro-stenciled (i.e. they have import marks). I gifted mine to my Dad. Does anyone know if buffing out the electro-stenciling is allowable? I think it'd be much nicer if you could get rid of the import mark then bead blast and parkerize it. But I'm unsure if removing the import mark is allowed.

 

[BluesDancer]

Understood that it is a shooter, not a collectible. All I would be looking for is a shooter that is a "decent" representation of an actual K98. I am not dropping a grand on a rifle like this in order to get more authenticity. I would just appreciate owning a RC K98 as a World War II buff.

What I am wondering is - is it a fair price for what you are getting and also would it be decently reliable and be accurate enough? I am asking about the reliability/accuracy because of what Numeric is saying - about force matching parts together to the receiver and all of that.

 

[rule303]

I think the price is about right. Parts will be mismatched and electropenciled, and typical Russian stock shellac and metal finish applied. While there is a lot of these floating around at reasonable prices right now, that won't always be the case. The supply of K98's is finite. For $439 you get a real K98, that definitely saw action, most likely on the eastern front. The Soviet capture adds some unique history to the gun even if it decreases the monetary value.

 

[Sarge]

I agree on the price. RCs are now in the $400 range about anywhere and will only get more expensive as the supply dries up.
The unpeened markings are a definate plus. There may or may not be etched numbers on different parts.
Soo - I'd say buy one.
Sarge

 

[happygeek]

I've also bought one from Wideners, except I got the straight bolt one for $360 (it was all they had at the time). I felt like I got a good deal because the only Russian mark I could find was an X on the butt plate and all the German markings were intact, including the date 1938 on the receiver.

I believe the straight bolt is from a Gewehr 98 and the Germans used it as a replacement part, but I'm guessing. I've seen whole formations marching with straight bolt K98s on the History channel before, but it's not a common sight.

As others have mentioned, these are Russian capture. I believe the Russians took them all apart, threw the parts in bins, re-finished the parts, and then re-assembled rifles from the bins. The only numbers that match on my rifle are the barrel & receiver, I'd imagine the Russians left those together. The other parts are electro stenciled with the receiver's SN, the buttstock has that SN carved in. The original SNs are still on the parts.

All I wanted was a real WWII German K98k, getting one with the German markings still intact was a big bonus, to go with the WWII German P38 I got. The importer, PW Arms out of Redmond WA, was nice enough to put their mark on the side of the barrel by the bayonet lug rather than billboarding it across the receiver like Century has an annoying habit of doing.

This is the one I got from Wideners after I disassembled it for de-cosmolining.



One other note, these are missing the front sight hoods and capture screws, which I've heard is an almost universal trait of Russian captures.

 

[LAGS]

And missing the cleaning rod too.

 

[happygeek]

^ True, forgot to mention that.

On a sidenote, from everything I've read the reddish stock color is from the Russian re-finishing. Judging by what I've seen on teh interwebs Mitchell's is taking RC K98s, re-finishing them again, and selling them in a condition that kinda, sorta, maybe looks like what der Wehrmacht was issuing in 1941. Oh, and they're marking them up $100 or more over Wideners.

Apparently non-RC K98s go for double or more. J&G has Yugo capture K98s for $250, but those have the German markings peened and are probably in worse shape. From everything I'd read ~$400 is quite fair for RCs, so I don't feel like I got a bad deal at all. I would have gotten the un-peened with bent bolt for $440 had they been available at the time.

 

[brunowbe]

^^^
Mitchell's also chromes the bolt (which the Wehrmacht never used) to make their rifles pretty and it has been alleged that they put fake markings on their rifles. Avoid buying a Mitchell's if you want any history with your rifle.

At this point $400 is very reasonable for RC K98s, especially if they are in good to very good condition which the rifles Widener's is selling appears to be. I paid $370 or so shipped for my RC K98 back in 2008-2009; but only because it is in excellent condition, so the price isn't bad what's being asked. If I didn't already have a K98,

 

[wlewisiii]

I've bought one of those. Good quality- a shooter, but not really collectible. The main deterrent is that they're electro-stenciled (i.e. they have import marks). I gifted mine to my Dad. Does anyone know if buffing out the electro-stenciling is allowable? I think it'd be much nicer if you could get rid of the import mark then bead blast and parkerize it. But I'm unsure if removing the import mark is allowed.

Depends on if there is a new serial number in it or not. If there is, that's the official serial number to ATF and can not be modified. IF there is not a new number, just the importer's name, then it can be erased as the manufacturers serial remains the official number.

 

[kwg020]

I bought a Russian capture K98 about 8 years ago for $250. The stock needed refinished and some of the numbers did not match, but it shoots well and after I refinished the stock it looks very nice. I wish now I would have bought several more of them. A GI bring back with original numbers would be a great find but a really pricey find.

If all you want to do is shoot the rifle and have some fun with it, don't be afraid of a mixmaster. If you want a collector be prepared to pay big money for it. kwg

 

[Roadkill]

Just for reference as to "unmessed with bring back" appearance. This is my 1944 BYF given to me by an uncle. Only thing I've done is use boiled linseed oil on the stock and replaced the sling.

 

[Sarge]

I've got the early mate to your byf 44. Mine is a 3 diget w/o letter so made about the first day of Jan while yours was made very late in Jan 44.
My rifle also came from an uncle who brought it back, but I had to pay $25 for it. I did get sling, sight hood, clg rod and bayonet with mine tho.
Had never heard of trophy papers so didn't ask for them. Years later when I learned they existed the uncle had died so will never know if he had them.
Sarge

 

[BluesDancer]

Jesus...they are sold out of the unpeened ones already! Good news is that I purchased one of them a couple days ago so I am in the clear. When it rains it pours I guess. I will see about posting pics once received. Thanks for all your help =)