Kerry Blasts Bush Over Attacks on Record

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Four monhts?

I know the details of his awarded actions. But 4 months incountry?

IIRC the tour was 12 months and you got out wounded (sufficiently), dead, or by political influence.

If his wounds were minor, how'd he pull off 4 months and out?
 
I am of the opinion that if a Republican candidate had gotten three Purple Hearts in four months and then touted his "combat record" in a political campaign, the press would be climbing all over themselves to find out just exactly what each of those Purple Hearts was for and what the exact circumstances of each injury was. But Kerry is treated like a saint and his record goes unquestioned. I'm not saying that Kerry's record SHOULD be questioned, mind you...

Acme
 
Here's what gets me. Kerry is willing to debate W on life during Viet Nam, or whatever, as if he's already gotten the nomination and will whine about Bush declining. But he won't have a real debate with the guy that's running against him for that nomination. Talk about arrogance.
 
If John Kerry says W is not qualified to call him
or debate him or make any comments about Kerry's
Vietnam experience because W was not in Vietnam, then
I submit that Kerry has no right to question W's
actions as President and occupant of the White House
because Kerry has never been President nor occupied
the White House.



:neener:
 
Does anyone remember Cokie Roberts, during the 1996 Republican convention, asking aloud on air why the Republicans were devoting so much time to Bob Dole's WWII service?

The man lost his right arm, for Christ's sake. Yet this liberal sycophant complained about Dole's service record.

Now the shoe is on the other foot. They have to simultaneously denounce war while trumpeting the record of those who participated in war. Talk about rocks and hard places.

Military service didn't help George HW Bush against Clinton, nor did Clinton's draft avoidance seem to hurt him. Dole obviously didn't gain traction from his WWII service in the 1996 campaign.

Speaking as a former 1960's mush-headed liberal, I think Kerry's strategy is to appeal to those who didn't want to fight, but want to believe they did something worthy, something just as worthy as fighting in a war. Kerry gives them the satisfaction of admitting they might have been wrong about Vietnam, while giving them the moral certaintude that war is still evil and they were right all the time.

Kerry doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth. He'd need 60 mouths to explain his differing votes on national security issues.

Anyone who caught GW's jab at Kerry tonight should have gotten a good laugh.
 
I've actually met Max and Saxby. Max is an idiot who thought his wheelchair would forever obscure the fact that he was northern liberal masquerading as a southern Democrat. It didn't work. I can tell you, if Max's endless bragging about his military record didn't help in Georgia, it won't help anywhere. Max's career as a mascot for the party leaders is at an end, and he is bitter.


GHB
 
Et tu, Monkeyleg?

"Speaking as a former 1960's mush-headed liberal, I think Kerry's strategy is to appeal to those who didn't want to fight, but want to believe they did something worthy, something just as worthy as fighting in a war."
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I suffered the same situation/era-induced debility, but have since recovered.

Maybe we should have a "support group"?:)

I think "JFK-lite" is trying to play both sides of the street with this act.

Hopefully most voters won't be recidivist '60's mush-headed liberals.:D
 
fallingblock, in my defense--as well as yours--by the time it came to enlist, Walter Cronkite had already convinced the American people that the war was lost. In hindsight, I now recognize that he was at best misinformed or, at worst, lying.

Nevertheless, I knew by '67 that the Johnson administration was screwing up the war for politicial reaons that had nothing to do with winning or losing the war, or even just sustaining the troops. From what Vietnam vets here on THR have said, we could have won that war. And how different our country would be if we had.

A very close cousin of mine went in 1964 and did two tours. When he came back he told me, his brother, and any other guy he knew not to go. He died threee years ago from drinking himself to death. Others I knew at that time said pretty much the same thing.

I never tried to evade the draft, but neither did I volunteer. I just waited for the notice to arrive. Those here on THR who served have the absolute right to slam me for that. I didn't go, but they did.

And there's the rub: I feel guilty pretty much everyday for not going, but feel glad that I didn't have to go to a war that Johnson had destined to failure.

Back to the original topic: Al Gore tried to gain traction based on his Vietnam service. It didn't work. As mentioned before, Dole and George HW Bush tried to use their combat records, and failed. A couple of years ago, Bob Kerry floated a trial balloon to see what reaction the public would have to the results of a "friendly-fire" mission in Vietnam. It got some headlines, but didn't get him any traction either. It didn't help, didn't hurt, but definitately determined his assessment of his chances for running for president.

Following WWII, the candidate who served had a leg up on his opponent. I think the last vestige of that mentality was JFK's election in 1960. In the years following, a war record could be as much a liability as an asset.

If Kerry is going to hang his hat on his Vietnam service, he's in for real trouble. He's been on two or even three sides of national defense issues while in the senate.

You just have to love this quote from GW today: "The other party's nomination battle is still playing out. The candidates are an interesting group with diverse opinions," Bush said. "They're for tax cuts and against them. They're for NAFTA and against NAFTA. They're for the Patriot Act and against the Patriot Act. They're in favor of liberating Iraq, and opposed to it. And that's just one senator from Massachusetts."
 
You just have to love this quote from GW today: "The other party's nomination battle is still playing out. The candidates are an interesting group with diverse opinions," Bush said. "They're for tax cuts and against them. They're for NAFTA and against NAFTA. They're for the Patriot Act and against the Patriot Act. They're in favor of liberating Iraq, and opposed to it. And that's just one senator from Massachusetts."


Classic. Very much like something that Ronald Reagan might say.

The Bush team should get Peggy Noonan onboard as a speechwriter.




-edeted for spelling- CHL22:36-
 
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If you think........

Kerry is touchy about his war record being brought out into the spotlight you are mistaken. He would like nothing better than the focus to remain right on it.

The real problem for Kerry is his abysmal record in the Senate and anything that keeps that gem under wraps is a plus in his attempt to get elected.

Campaigns have an ebb and flow all their own and when the time is right the Bush campaign will drag out Kerry's Senate record, kicking and screaming into the light of day. As Dean would say.......YEAAAAAAAAH!:D
 
Monkeyleg, it's a long time ago, now...

"Walter Cronkite had already convinced the American people that the war was lost. In hindsight, I now recognize that he was at best misinformed or, at worst, lying."
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Walter didn't hide his politics well.
He evolved into the senile "one-worlder" he is today from humble beginnings.


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Nevertheless, I knew by '67 that the Johnson administration was screwing up the war for politicial reaons that had nothing to do with winning or losing the war, or even just sustaining the troops. From what Vietnam vets here on THR have said, we could have won that war. And how different our country would be if we had.
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Indeed! Just a while back, on another thread, we were exploring the
"what ifs" of the U.S. not having become involved in Vietnam. I think that there would be a vastly different political scene today if either alternative had replaced the historical one.


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A very close cousin of mine went in 1964 and did two tours. When he came back he told me, his brother, and any other guy he knew not to go. He died threee years ago from drinking himself to death. Others I knew at that time said pretty much the same thing.
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My nephew was in Korea at the time and advised me to steer clear of the Army,as did my first cousin, an Army lieutenant who later was on his way stateside when the '68 Tet offensive hit.

One of my good friends went down with the John D. Evans and another lost his legs and suffered the same fate as your cousin. Two of my high school classmates are confined in psychiatric institutions, although their problems may stem more from their post service drug use than directly from their tours in Vietnam.

Not many Vietnam vets came back and advocated for their friends and family to volunteer, at least in my experience.

The notice came for me just after high school graduation:

"Greetings from the President...."


This was the same dufus who would later advocate & sign the GCA '68.


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I never tried to evade the draft, but neither did I volunteer. I just waited for the notice to arrive. Those here on THR who served have the absolute right to slam me for that. I didn't go, but they did.

And there's the rub: I feel guilty pretty much everyday for not going, but feel glad that I didn't have to go to a war that Johnson had destined to failure.
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I'll certainly pass on any slam on you, Monkeyleg.

I believe the Whitehouse, the media, and the anti-war political movement lost the Vietnam War, not the U.S. military.

And I blame my own subsequent attack of 'mush-headed liberal"-itis on the bizarre events of the '60's.:)


Back on topic:
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"Following WWII, the candidate who served had a leg up on his opponent. I think the last vestige of that mentality was JFK's election in 1960. In the years following, a war record could be as much a liability as an asset.

If Kerry is going to hang his hat on his Vietnam service, he's in for real trouble. He's been on two or even three sides of national defense issues while in the senate."
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I think Kerry is trying a new 'angle' for this election cycle:

"I served, and am a hero for doing so, but I protested the war, and that makes me a hero as well...."

Truly a scenario out of the addled sixties.:eek:

John Kerry may be even better at equivocation than Bill Clinton is.:barf:
 
A very close cousin of mine went in 1964 and did two tours. When he came back he told me, his brother, and any other guy he knew not to go. ..... Others I knew at that time said pretty much the same thing.

Add my older brother to that club. He actually volunteered to go. When he came home, all he said to me was: "You were right."
 
Kerry Blasts Bush Over Attacks on Record
Well, if there is some question as to whether the attacks are warranted, then certainly Senator Kerry can allay any misgivings that any of us may have by releasing all of his military records as President Bush was forced to.

And while we are at it, I have a modest proposal to make. I propose that the Justice Department offer blanket immunity to any of the 150 servicemen (willing to come forward/still alive/etc...) that Mr. Kerry mentioned in his testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971.

Let's once and for all have these "Winter Soldiers" as they were called; come forward, and speak. Let's finally put this to rest.

A few small provisos: This time those soldiers must be positively identified, and their identity must be matched to the list of the "Winter Soldiers" project. Any that claim to be "highly decorated", as Mr. Kerry described them, must provide proof of those medals and awards. And of course - in order for their immunity to attach - they must specify who, what. when, and where; even if they aren't sure why the littany of atrocities they described were committed.

In retrospect, I would say that rather than being a modest proposal, I would in fact need to characterize this as being rather radical. Should Mr. Kerry accept this proposal, and should he convene this group 33 years later, and should their stories prove to in fact be true, it would almost certainly secure for him the office of President. Which (for me at least) would be anathema.

He will have shown himself to be right about the war in Viet Nam, it will show America how passionate he is about pursuing truth, and he will have provided all Americans an opportunity for national catharsis over what was arguably our worst war.

Ask me how I know he'll NEVER be willing to do it. ;)
 
:cuss: THIS IS WHAT FROSTS MY COOKIES!


2/4/2004

Kerry and McAuliffe Reach New Low in Politics

Senator Associates Service in Guard with Draft Dodging, DNC Chairman says Guard Do Not Serve in Military!

BISMARCK, ND – This past weekend, Democrat National Committee Chairman, Terry McAuliffe, claimed that service in the National Guard was not service in “our military in our countryâ€. Senator John Kerry (D-ND) went even further in his partisan attacks when asked to comment on McAuliffe’s statement. The Senator lumped people that went to Canada to avoid the draft or went to jail or were conscientious objectors with members of the National Guard.

McAuliffe and Kerry made these charges in a partisan tirade against President George W. Bush and his service in the National Guard. (The full quotes accompany this release.)

“Terry McAuliffe's and Senator Kerry’s gutter politics are nothing new but their partisan attacks should not be made towards the thousands of men and women here in North Dakota and all across our great nation that serve in the National Guard.†said Republican State Party Executive Director, Jason Stverak. “I think we can all agree that anyone in the National Guard is serving ‘our military in our country’ and National Guard members should never be compared to draft dodgers!â€

Mr. McAuliffe’s and Senator Kerry’s charges against President Bush’s military record would be laughable if they were not so reprehensible. The non-partisan Annenberg Center at the University of Pennsylvania recently detailed how Mr. McAuliffe’s charges are without basis. The President was honorably discharged from the National Guard. Honorable discharge is not possible for those who have been AWOL from service.

Currently, there are over 1000 members of the North Dakota National Guard either serving in Iraq or mobilized for deployment to the theater.

TEXT OF MR. MCAULLIFE’S QUOTE "I look forward to that debate when John Kerry, a war hero with a chest full of medals is standing next to George Bush, a man who was AWOL in the Alabama National Guard. George Bush never served in our military in our country. He didn't show up when he should have showed up and there's John Kerry on the stage with a chest full of medals that he earned by saving lives of American soldiers. So, as John Kerry says, 'Bring it on.'"- ABC’s This Week – Feb 1, 2004

TEXT OF SENATOR KERRY’S QUOTE “I’ve never made any judgments about any choice somebody made about avoiding the draft, about going to Canada, going to jail, being a conscientious objector, going into the National Guard,†Kerry, a decorated Vietnam Veteran, told the Fox News Channel.â€These are choices people make.†– Los Angeles Times – Feb. 4, 2004

- END -

How many more Guard units are in the thick of things in Afghanistan and Iraq? Many of them have been "In Country" months longer than Kerry. I say they rate a public apology from Kerry.:fire:
 
Jeez, if I'd known that I guess I wouldn't have spent most of the last year knocking around Iraq with all these other people in the Guard. Way to get votes man!
 
by 7.62fullmetaljacket......Senator John Kerry (D-ND) did he move?

Maybe they are confusing him with Sen. Joseph (Bob) Kerrey (D-NE) you know the one who is a winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a SEAL team leader during action against enemy aggressor (Viet Cong) forces. Acting in response to reliable intelligence, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey led his SEAL team on a mission to capture important members of the enemy's area political cadre known to be located on an island in the bay of Nha Trang. In order to surprise the enemy, he and his team scaled a 350-foot sheer cliff to place themselves above the ledge on which the enemy was located. Splitting his team in 2 elements and coordinating both, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey led his men in the treacherous downward descent to the enemy's camp. Just as they neared the end of their descent, intense enemy fire was directed at them, and Lt. (jg.) Kerrey received massive injuries from a grenade which exploded at his feet and threw him backward onto the jagged rocks. Although bleeding profusely and suffering great pain, he displayed outstanding courage and presence of mind in immediately directing his element's fire into the heart of the enemy camp. Utilizing his radio, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey called in the second element's fire support which caught the confused Viet Cong in a devastating crossfire. After successfully suppressing the enemy's fire, and although immobilized by his multiple wounds, he continued to maintain calm, superlative control as he ordered his team to secure and defend an extraction site. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey resolutely directed his men, despite his near unconscious state, until he was eventually evacuated by helicopter. The havoc brought to the enemy by this very successful mission cannot be over-estimated. The enemy soldiers who were captured provided critical intelligence to the allied effort. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey's courageous and inspiring leadership, valiant fighting spirit, and tenacious devotion to duty in the face of almost overwhelming opposition sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.

Like so many other men of his caliber, Sen. Kerrey never boasted of his exploits or tossed his (someone else's actually) medals over a wall like another Senator did. Still some folks confuse the junior Senator from MA John Kerry with retired Senator Joseph (Bob) Kerrey from NE.

Some folks do, but I never will.
 
Bob Kerrey was a hero and succeeded despite his disability. He retired peacefully and, as far as I know, was a man of integrity and honor even though he was a "D." John Kerry may have been a hero, and he may have been something else, but we know what he is now.
 
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