Kitchen cutlery do's and don'ts

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wheelgunslinger

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So, I've learned a lot from you guys about knives and sharpening.
I'd like to learn more.

Right now, the knives I use the most are my kitchen knives (I'm bordering on being a vegetarian I eat so much produce.) and my pocket knives.

I'm noticing that even with my allegedly forever sharp Santoku style Ginsu that I have to sharpen quite frequently (not the best steel. probably recycled subarus).
So, like any guy who is getting hooked on knives, I go knife "window shopping" quite a bit looking for a good/better blade.

Recently I got a smoking deal on a set of 3 CrMoV knives that seem to be quite a bit better than the cheapo ginsu or my old hickory pieces.

What sort of steel should I be looking for?
And, what sort of sharpness should a working blade aspire to have when used primarily to dismember produce for grub? I keep them sharp enough to nearly fall through a head of romaine, but am curious as to how you guys keep your kitchen cutlery and what your standards may be.

I wouldn't hesitate to grab any of my kitchen knives if I had an intruder between me and my 357.
 
Personally, I love my Ontario Old Hickory knives. All different kitchen styles, carbon steel. They will rust very quickly if neglected, but with minimal care seem to improve with age, and take an edge better than any knife I own, bar none.
 
I'm a huge fan of Henckels. Not the cheapest knife out there, but they really hold an edge and are easy to control. I have no idea what steel they use. I have a Gerber diamond steel that sits beside my knife block for when something needs a touch up.
 
I've tried a lot of kitchen knives. Started with Henkles but didn't care for them. I still like the boning knife and the paring knife and use them a lot. The larger knives didn't do it for me. Edge retention wasn't what I was looking for.

I switched to the Ontario knives including their Old Hickory and some of their plastic handled $4 knives like their fruit/vegetable knives from KnifeCenter. Good knives for the price after you fix 'em up a bit. Reprofile the edge, and take a bit of metal off the spine. I turned this one into a wharcliffe that is a great, thin cutter:
onw5125.jpg

If I had to put out a recommendation for a great kitchen knife that can cover some SD applications, I'd have to go with Dexter Russells Sani-Safe line. Stout, rather thick blades that are built like tanks.
http://www.dexter1818.com/sani-safe.asp?group_name=sani-safe.asp

At least half the price of Henkles, US made, good variety of styles, incredible grip to the handles, and they keep an edge (convexed by me).

This one is a beast:
MiniBolo2.jpg

Chris
 
Anyone have experience with ceramic paring knives? The adverts sound good, but are they worth the price?
 
Check out Forschner (Victorinox.) Cold Steel's kitchen knives also look like they'd make awesome slicers...
As previously mentioned, Dexter Russel and Ontario/Old Hickory are good places to turn for more traditional knives.
If you want to go higher end, then the Shun line by KAI (owner of Kershaw)

Find out what you want. This may be totally inaccurate, but in order of importance, I'd say:
1. Chef's Knife. Used for chopping stuff up. Sturdier ones can be used to break down bones or frozen foods- but the cheaper ones will probably have stamped blades. While they can be extremely sharp, you might want to consider spending a little bit more on a chef's knife to get a forged model, so you have some heft. You can get a French chef's knife, an santoku, and Chinese cleaver, or a nakiri. DR makes various reasonably priced models.
2. Paring knife. Probably the most used knife in the kitchen- these can be used for just about anything that doesn't require a big blade. They're very light anyway, so stamped should be fine. The Victorinox Forschner and the Old Hickory line will both run you about $7 dollars, and are very good.
3. Boning knife. Used for breaking down meat. Thin and semiflexible are good, so stamped is A-OK. Again, Forschner is the way to go here. Plastic handles are also best, because you'd use this for working with things like chicken and will probably need to sterilize it.
4. Serrated knife. Big is good here- it means you can easily saw through large loaves of bread or roasts. Stiff is also good, but some of the better stamped brands have blades thick and stiff enough to get through crusty bread.

You'd be pretty well set with those, but more that are good to have are:
5. Electric Knife. Can do pretty much whatever a serrated knife can, and is very adapt at manuevering through rosts. They're also fairly cheap- I beleive that there is a Black and Decker that's about $20.
6. Big Breaker Downer. Yeah, a butcher knife, cimiter, or slicer, for breaking down things like beef sub primals. Long and thin is the way to go here.
7. Cleaver. Used to chop through bone, chop up meat (fajitas, cheese steak, barbeque) and through tough stuff like melons, gourds, and squash. You could get someting like a Kabar Heavy Bowie for thing like this (or a hatchet.)
8. Hookbill paring knife, for scraping things out. Again, Forschner.
9. Fillet knife. If you break down a lot of fish, than this would be a good thing. Rapala fillet knives are about $15 at Wal-Mart.
10. Utilty knife. Basically a cross between a chef's knife and paring knife.
11. Serrated paring knife. At about $7 for a Forshcner, these are useful for making short work of celery, and, believe it or not, shaving and cutting through cheese.
12. Mandolin. Zyliss makes a good one. If you lik potato chips or fries, you're going to want one of these.
13. Peeler. Again, Zyliss makes a good one. Y or straight, depending on your preferance.
14. Pizza Cutter. Yeah, that's right, Zyliss.
 
Just got to a restaurant supply house and get a set of their industrials (looks like the Dexter Russell shown above). Tramontina NSF certified kitchen knives are pretty darned good for the price.
 
My mom and sisters like their Wustof Trident knives. They hold an edge well, and aren't too expensive.

I've had a set of Chicago Cutlery kitchen knives for years; they didn't cost too much, they hold a edge for a while, and they seem like they're holding up pretty good.

Ceramic knives are nice, but they are expensive and brittle. If you drop a ceramic knife, the blade will break.
 
I go both ways by using my field knives in the kitchen.

On the one hand I have accumulated a fairly respectable suite of knives by always checking at Goodwill - I've never found a really good knife - some assorted Gerbers from the old days - but a fair number of knives that performed nicely with a proper edge - takes being willing to spend time with a diamond sharpener to reform and thin sometimes.

On the other hand my fancy carving knife is a stag handled Randle and I have a few (Russell) Morseths and some 154CM and AT34S from second tier makers - I find that a second tier maker's knockoff or homage or influenced by - and I don't have any qualms that a knockoff from a 19th century Marbles is an unfair infringement - does a fine job. Lots of Gerber Pixie and such also the same knife from Browning as a Trout and Bird for paring knifes. The big Chef's knives are unique to the kitchen and there are specialty knives either way but I figure using a knife daily in the kitchen reduces the chance of accidents using it in the field.
 
A good kitchen knife is a thing of beauty, but you don't specifically need a kitchen knife in order to be happy and have great results. I use an ulu for tha majority of my cooking tasks, and I find that it is very versatile and works great. I have been using my newly-beloved griptilian with the modified sheepsfoot blade in the kitchen a bunch lately, and if I could buy that exact style blade as a fixed blade, it very well could replace the ulu as my main food knife. I also like the versatility, though not the quality, of the cleaver-like knives that you see on TV. It's a bit of a gimmick, but the "Rock-n-Chop" that my mom bought is actually very useful. The quality could be better, but I find it extemely useful to have a smallish cleaver type knife.

Keep in mind that I am just a home cook that likes to play with knives. I have never worked a single day in a kitchen, and professional chefs will probably laugh at my choices, and likely with good reason.
 
You should only buy the knid of kitchen knives that you are willing to spend the time on. If you don't want to do much, then stainless is fine. There are certainly extremely high quality stainless knives out there. They also don't tarnish, which can turn most people off.

My kitchen block knives are a set of Shun stainless knives that I bought when they first came out and were on sale. That's for the wife because she won't think twice putting knives back into the block wet. She also sometimes thinks: knife=screwdriver.

My real knives are several handforged Japanese knives that I have accumulated over the years. Carbon steel, thin, hard and scary scary sharp. These I keep in their wraps and cases and they only come out on special occasions. They take some time to maintain, you need to keep them clean, sharpened and oiled between uses.

As for ceramics: I have 3 ceramic knives, had them since at least 1997 I reckon. Only Ok for paring, OK for slicing vegetables, but they are best for preparing decorative vegetables like garnishing when you need to make really thin or precision slices. Can't peel vegetables worth anything. Ceramics don't have any 'heft' and do not chop well at all, they also don't slice raw meats all that well. They are so brittle that I've chipped them on hard-crusted bread.

Cool to show off and play with, but carbon steel makes the best blades in my books.
 
My Kitchen knives consist of
an old Dexter Chefs knife
A couple of J.A. Henckels (not the really high end ones)
Chicago Cutlery walnut series
and Old Hickory.

My ratings are
Dexter- Great knife!
Henckels -more name than anything. OK Knives but barely worth what I paid for them.
Chicago Cutlery-Good buy, Decent stainless blades hold a good edge.
Old Hickory- Worth more than I paid for them. Take a wicked edge. They are my go to working knives for any 4" and under job in the kitchen. However they are carbon and need some care such as being dried and oiled before putting them in the block.

So to answer your questions from my point of view:
Carbon steel or decent stainless (depends who else is using your knives and caring for them)

I sharpen my kitchen knives at a relatively shallow angle to give a thin edge and they should shave without pulling.
 
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Forschner

They come shrap out of the box, have a thinner spine than most(less resistance), easy to resharpen and are quite resonabley priced compared to the Henckels, and Wusthoff.
 
Just bought a Forschner to try out---loving it so far---was getting real tired of my old crappy unsharpenable Walmart Old Chicago knives.

Will be buying more Forschner's to complete a set.
 
i have almost as many kitchenknives as i have other blades....

in the midprice-segment i think Zwilling 4star or 5star Santoku
does it best for me.

Those plastic handled things are good value,
if u got a band-sharpening thing at home IMHO.

eBay is great for kitchen knives!

..i actually bring my main knife to a sharpener
once a year to re-edge it.
 
All my kitchen knives are Forschner these days. Got rid of everything else long ago. Even made up a sheath for the Forschner paring knife as a trout and bird knife. The stuff is great. Also the choice of many proffesional cooks and chefs.
 
When I cooked for a living, The Wustofs were the popular kitchen knives. I had a 10" chef, a 12" Roast beef Slicer, a 6" chef, a 6" Boning knife, and the 3.5" paring. Since then I've added my wife's 8" chef and a 10" slicer. For keeping an edge on them I have a 12" steel and a 12" diamond steel to give them a little more before putting them on the tri stone for real sharpening.

For disposable serrated knives I've always used the dexters since you can't beat them for an inexpensive throwaway for $10. We also have a dozen regular and serrated edge paring knives by dexter for like $3 each. I like the Wustof's Forged knives because I can abuse the heck out of them and it doesn't harm them. Abuse meaning I use the heal at the base of the blade near the handle to punch holes in stock cans as a quick way to open them up. We used to use them on 1 gallon olive oil cans to open them up in a hurry. As long as you can keep an edge on them and they fit your hand, well anything will do in a pinch. These are my preferences.. ymmv.
 
I like the Dexter/Russel plastic handled serrated knives. I can't stand their plain edge chef knives however, they don't have the proper heft or handle. I work them them on a daily basis and they require constant honing, such as after a few bunches of green onions, and always disappoint. They feel light and cheap. Many of the modern plastic handled knives feel this way regardless of the steel quality, and the feel is something I can't get over.

For home use you could do a lot worse than a few well honed Old Hickory knives. The quick rust carbon steel is a trade off for being inexpensive and easy to sharpen. Buy a few and work the edges over with a series of stones or sandpaper, you'll be able to shave with them.

You will find some knives balance awkwardly on the hand. The full width tangs, heavy bolster, rivets, and laminated wood can really bring the balance back to the hand which makes them feel handier but becomes awkward in practice. I prefer a blade bias for weight, finding 10"-12" optimal, and I like blades that are sharp all the way the the base, not thickened at the bolster as you will see in the Wusthof knives. For paring knives I would not go beneath 4".

Sharpness can be altered slightly to suit preference but a lot of blades have too much drag. You may be able to shave ham with the razor edge but the rear of the blade could be so thick that wedging a red potato requires brute force. Lettuce has no resistance and can be sheared with a lightweight blade of any sharpness.

I use an inexpensive sabatier santoku style knife at home along with a Salvation Army $3 Hoffritz 14" french chef's knife. Neither would be my top choice but they are both serviceable bargains with a lot of usefulness. Professional knives are $$$ and I'm only a cook!
 
If you want something that will hold an edge, make sure that it is "Forged"; don't bother getting any of the cheap "Stamped" knives - you'll just be aggravated by them.

Stainless steel seems to rule in the kitchen; it is difficult to ignore the convenience that stainless offers - tough steel that is highly rust-resistant. There are other steels available, but you'll have to keep a bottle of mineral oil handy and wipe the blades after every use.

Wusthof, Messermeister, Forschner, & Henckels all offer comparable products that are made out of forged Stainless Steel. You can purchase a set of very good kitchen knives from the above companies for around $250.00 to $350.00.
(Costco offers a 10-piece set of Henckels for $170.00 - a screaming deal!)

I have found that ceramic knives are overrated - they do not hold an edge for as long as they are advertised to, and they are nearly impossible to sharpen yourself. Also, they are fragile and can break quite easily - and let's not even mention how expensive they are...

If you want to go nuts (and deal with the maintenance), you can get a top-end knife like an 8" Kanetsune Debe kitchen knife with a Damascus blade that has an MSRP of $269.00.
I don't have one of these, because I find it hard to justify the expense, but I'm sure you'll find some people who are very pleased with them.

In the end, it all depends on what your comfort level is on cost and maintenance.
 
I can't live without my pair of 5" utility knives (yes Henckels :neener:), anything larger I don't use that often. I also have a big cleaver that a friend sent me from Japan. No markings, I have no idea who made it, but it's a heavy carbon blade and just scary sharp, it could be pressed into a SD role very easily. However, I recently added a Rapla fillet knife to my block and have found it very handy indeed.
 
sounds like you have the basics . . . . .

pretty well figured out. Good carbon steel kitchen knives are hard to beat in terms of edge holding and ease of sharpening but you might want to consider stainless if you do a lot of tomatoes and or acidic fruit like citrus and pineapples and such. Good cutting boards and good sharpening steels are equally important IMHO. Both of those things will enhance your enjoyment of your kitchen cutlery.
 
What sort of steel should I be looking for?
And, what sort of sharpness should a working blade aspire to have when used primarily to dismember produce for grub?
Click to expand...

I've got Shuns and I like them a lot. They're stainless clad with a VG-10 core. Carbon has a lot of benefits, but the maintainence aspects of stainless trump for me.

In terms of sharpness, the bevel came at ~30 degrees from the factory and I easily maintain that on a Sharpmaker. I use them regularly, but not heavily. They get a quick steel every couple uses and hit the Sharpmaker stones once or twice a year. I've had several folks who are not "into" knives comment on how little pressure they require to cut.

There are certainly sharper knives out there, but something that keeps 30 without a whole lot of effort or maintaince works well for me for my 'average guy' general kitchen uses.
 
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