knife if you arent trained with one

[GojuBrian]

I think this was eluded to earlier.... just fyi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

http://video.google.com/videosearch...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBoQqwQwAw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQKqg-zcte4

I'm not highly trained with a knife, but I've done enough to know I never want to "pull a knife". If a knife is pulled on me I'm out of there. If you are unable to run, use your environment.

 

[BHP FAN]

I am reminded of Antonio Banderas' reply to Sir Anthony Hopkins in the movie Zorro,when asked if he knows how to use a sword...''sure,the pointy end goes in the other fellow''!

 

[rrruuunnn]

That video is off. In reality, the BG would follow the man to the left. Should be running away or 45 degrees off, not sideways.

 

[Venado]

I prefer a knife over a gun. I agree with what has been said, don't let the aggressors know what you have, until you need it. If they do know, they will just get something bigger. A knife should never be used as a bluff, nor a gun or any weapon. If you pull it, be ready to use it. I believe that if the situation warrants pulling a weapon, using a blunt end of it is not a wise thing to do. 4" knifes have been mentioned in this post. They can kill as efficiently as a 7".

 

[sheepdog]

Scoutsabout...

...you're making a lot of dogmatic statements in your posts based on your strong opinions...that conflict with the experiences of some of us twice your age who've been in military service, law enforcement...and you don't understand why we disagree...a lot of your opinions are based on error, and won't stand up to life experience...keep on researching, talk to more who've been in knife fights or seen the results, learn what the laws really say, and some of your opinions might change...though your personal preferences may not....I won't pick your posts apart line by line...but a lot of what you say is in error, probably due to your limited life experience...the best thing about these forums is that they spur us to research and teach us things we might never learn otherwise...these older men who've been there have a wealth of knowledge for all of us to benefit from...

 

[strambo]

Sheesh...just watch some good old fashioned prison violence, then learn some anatomy and physics to be more efficient at it than they are. (do what they do...just do it better)

There are no secrets and no "masters" of a certain type of violence. Violence is all the same: somebody getting injured and somebody doing the injuring. Gun, knife, club, forearm...it doesn't matter. Just be the one doing the injuring and don't stop until they are no longer a threat.

 

[scoutsabout]

(deleted by author)

 

[9MMare]

My opinion stands: Any bludgeon is better than a pocket knife for self defense.

Well when you distill it down to this, I wouldnt agree. It has to depend on a scenario.

In mine, walking to my car after work (where I cannot carry my 9mm), I dont see me carrying a blunt instrument. That leaves me with pepper spray, taser, or a knife.

The knife has been recommended because if my situational awareness fails and allows someone to grab me OR I try to run and they still catch me, with a knife that they dont even know I'm carrying (3-4" blade)...I can employ it with one hand or even while both arms are held down to my sides. Puncture, scrape, stab, whatever body part is nearest.

It takes more training to fend off someone successfully with a blunt instrument....and wouldnt work in my likely scenario. Pepper spray might but you have problems with wind, aiming, etc. It's still a decent option.

All the men in this thread seem to be looking at fighting scenarios....even if defensive. I'm trying to be realistic and use the tool that will serve me in my most likely scenarios. As a means to escape, period. Or to buy time while yelling for help.

I realize that this is not a 'macho' way to deploy a knife, and may not appeal to the people here, but if you are making defensive recommendations to each other, or for wives, daughters, girlfriends.....then constructive critique would be valuable.

 

[scoutsabout]

9MMare,

Good points. I think you and I are basically in agreement. Something in your hand is better than nothing in your hand. My arguments have mainly been an attempt to refute those "macho" knife guys you mentioned.

I don't think you can rely on a 4" knife to incapacitate a determined aggressor, especially without training. Beyond that, I'm not even sure there is an argument. Create an opening and escape. If you have freedom of movement, I still think that using the knife as a bludgeon would be more effective. If you are bear hugged... sure, the blade could help.

You know what I think is even better than any of the scenarios or opinions so far in this thread? Maintaining some level of fitness and acquiring some skills. Whether with a knife, koga, or bare hands, the value of physical ability to ward off an attack cannot be overstated. Even those of us who CCW are well served to have some physical ability, should we need to fall back on it. The less effective a weapon, the greater our need for physical prowess.

The most impressive rape prevention instructor I've known was a meek little 110 pound woman. She would regularly embarrass large men in her demonstrations, empty handed. The original supposition of this post, that "no skill" thing, puts a light on this discussion that I'm not particularly comfortable with. If you're going to carry a knife for self defense, know how to effectively use it. Same with a gun. Same with just your bare hands.

Want to defend yourself? Get some skills.

Limited to a knife, but lack skills? Get some.

Like you said, the point is to escape with your life... and I totally agree. But like you alluded to, we can't train for every scenario. All we can do is equip ourselves the best we can and train in ways that will give us the most bang for our buck.

But... don't carry a weapon unless you know how to use it.

That reminds me, it's time to go over defensive stuff with my wife again.

.

 

[sheepdog]

...I didn't remotely attack anyone's character...and I didn't condescend...I simply observed that your point of view and your "this is the way it is" statements only reflect YOUR experience...and some are in error...others are opinions that are different because you haven't lived long enough to have the amount of life experience that some here have...and you should realize that ...more bluntly put...you don't have all the answers...as to your list of letters...I would guess that reflects military training and experience? I don't know what it is...but your "body count" doesn't mean that the experiences of others who posted here are worthless and that they don't know a lot that you haven't found out yet...your sarcastic references to " a cute little 4" knife" and your point 3 and 4 are false...I've seen more men killed with a knife under 4" than longer ones...street fighting...not military combat...and, as I posted earlier, a knife can beat a club, pipe, rifle...if you want it to...even as untrained as I was in boot camp...I've never fought with a knife on the street, either...but I've seen dozens cut to pieces and never one who took the knife away and put it anywhere...and the trained LEOS and Feds who've learned from pro civilian instructors commonly teach that a short knife 3"-5" is sufficient...if you use it right....the states I've lived in allow carry of up to a 5 1/2" knife...there goes point 4...again in my experience...I did not say your opinions are dogma...but that they were dogmatically stated...which was the point of my post...which you made when you said in your reply: "...I have every reason to seak out the best training and techniques, evolve and bring forward my own experiences, and to integrate anything I can from the opinions of other people." A lot of what was posted before I addressed you specifically was from others whose opinions are formed by THEIR experiences...not to be dismissed ...

 

[Dee]

I think knives are good to have around. They are handy tools and can be great close quater weapons if you ever needed them as such IMHO. I've never been in a knife fight but I have studied enough to know that they should not be under estimated. You can put a good assited opening knife into action faster than most could draw a gun as someone pointed out. Many times I don't have a gun on me but I always have a 3"-4" folder at least. It's kind of like insurace, you hope you never need it but it good to know it's there. Plus again it is a practicle tool that I use on a daily basis anyway.

 

[dogngun]

Attempting to uses anything for which you have no training to save your life is a last resort - of course better than nothing, but to set out with the idea of using this as your first and only means of defense is pretty stupid and a great way to get killed.

Anyone "sneaking into my house with a tool" will get to meet Mr. 12 Gauge, which I was taught to use and carried when I served in the Army in the '70's.

mark

 

[Dee]

Look, if someone broke into my place I would blow them right back out with a 12ga or a .45 at least. I guess my only point is that you have to be resourceful with what you have at the time. Not doing so is more likely what will get you killed. If there is a steel pipe laying close by then use that if it is what you are more comfortable with, whatever. If you do have your gun then obviously use it.

Also I am not at all advocating picking fights and brandishing or threatening people with a knife or any other weapon. If the odds are stacked against you though and all you have is a knife then use the damn thing! Why wouldn't you? Finally, I didn't emphasize this but training in any and all weapons that you have is a good plan, guns, knives and impact weapons should cover most of your bases. Also hand to hand training, martial arts is quite benificial.

 

[sgt gray]

As far as brandishing a knife goes if you have the time and ability to pull out a knife to try and scare the bad guy....don't you have enough time to walk or at worst run away from the situation. Trust me, I am all about the bad guy getting the business end of whatever weapon I may have on or around me. However, why the hell would anyone in their right mind risk their own life when you have the opportunity to walk or run away. If i were the bad guy in real fight, I would take your knife (I'll even grab it by the blade to take from you) and use it on you, all because you wanted to try and scare me with it. The only time you should ever use deadly force is when you actually think you might get killed by the bad guy, not when ever the law says you can. Do you want to be alive and well in a cozy jail cell, or would you rather be dead? I'll take jail any day. Its alway good to know the laws, of course, but in a life or death situation the last thing I want to be thinking about is what I can and can't do to protect myself.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

From a legal stand point it is much harder to justify using a knife than it is using a gun. Basically, everything that has been said regarding this is the case.

From a tactical perspective though, consider this:

a.) it takes a minimum of time and training to learn how to use a gun well enough to defend yourself. It could be said that mastering how to use guns in self-defense takes many years. But adequacy is a fast thing.

b.) Learning how to use a knife to defend yourself is literally a life long pursuit. And there are thousands of knives, and hundreds of systems for using them to defend yourself invented by tons of cultures all throughout the world. To use one skillfully takes years. YEARS to learn how to do well.

I have myself, studied specifically the Filipino art of escrima for a year, and know enough to get myself killed. Use a gun. It's easier, it's more deadly, and in America, you won't have the newsmedia saying a crazed man cut out a burglar's eye.

Yes, it is just as legitimate morally to stop a deadly attack with a samurai sword, or a ghurka knife by decapitating the attacker as it is to put two in the chest, but our society doesn't tend to see it that way.

 

[JLtZD]

A knife + OC is a great combo (against a non-gun wielding attacker) as the opponent will want to keep their eyes on the knife, but away from the spray....if the pepper spray was in a flashlight style device at night it would further enhance the effect.

Mute point if you can carry a gun instead, or run fast enough, or keep your awareness up enough that you avoid the situation all together.

 

[shockwave]

Knives are bad business. As a life-long student of martial arts, I train in the dojo twice weekly and at home daily. In knife drills I still get stabbed and slashed. When I'm lucky I can defend, when I'm not I get cut. My advice is: "when a knife comes out, run - if you can't run, grab a chair or anything and go crazy."

If you have the knife, keep it close and concealed as long as you can.