Learned a valuable lesson with my CCW ammo.

[Riomouse911]

I will be interested to learn more in this thread, but I am finding it hard to believe that ammunition is noticeably sensitive to being moved or not. When I think about military history, there has been plenty of ammunition that was stored in place for decades, and then unpacked and used. And there has also been lots of ammo that has been trucked back and forth over rough terrain for extended periods before finally being used. In either case, results have been acceptable.

Also, since the first development of firearms, one of the great goals has been to make them more reliable and less sensitive to all environmental factors. In the last 100 years, as cartridges have gotten to be quite well refined, the great human endeavor to produce reliable firearms has been pretty successful, and the stability of ammunition has gotten very good.

With regard to oil affecting cartridges, there was an article in the last few years by a guy to tried his best to damage cartridges and primers with gun oils. Despite the widespread understanding that oil can destroy powder and primers, he was pretty much unsuccessful. That does not prove to me that cartridges are always immune to solvents, but it argues convincingly that cartridges are not as easily damaged by oil as we sometimes hear. I am sure google can provide links to the article.

With all of that said, I cannot offer any better explanation for the problems experienced by the OP, and I am subscribed to this thread in the hopes of learning more.

A recent gun mag (Gun Digest The Magazine, I think) had an article on water immersions’ affect on ammo. It was pretty informative, revealing that brief dunking in water or snow had zero effect, but 24 hours immersed would really damage rounds... and nail polish had minimal effect in keeping the primer/powder from being contaminated.

I will imagine that Penetrating solvents or similars would work just as effectively on getting inside cartridge cases and contaminating powder-primers as plain water if allowed to sit on the cartridges for long enough.

In any event I doubt it’s good for the cartridges, so I’ll still state it’s a good idea to keep them from being doused in oils/solvents just to be safe.

 

[Riomouse911]

Oh, and setback is a real issue. The above posters are right about not slamming rounds into chambers repeatedly and checking rounds for setback after they’ve been chambered a time or two.

I’ve seen this in auto pistols on several occasions, especially in bulk-box plinking-target ammo.
Stay safe.

 

[Pat Riot]

I will be interested to learn more in this thread, but I am finding it hard to believe that ammunition is noticeably sensitive to being moved or not.

Regarding what I posted before about ammo stored in a truck tool box. The problem is vibration and the powder rubbing against itself and the cartridge case. Over a period of time the individual formed powder pieces start breaking down from their original form and this changes the firing characteristics of the powder. At least that is what I have been told. It makes sense to me.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

A recent gun mag (Gun Digest The Magazine, I think) had an article on water immersions’ affect on ammo. It was pretty informative, revealing that brief dunking in water or snow had zero effect, but 24 hours immersed would really damage rounds... and nail polish had minimal effect in keeping the primer/powder from being contaminated.

I will imagine that Penetrating solvents or similars would work just as effectively on getting inside cartridge cases and contaminating powder-primers as plain water if allowed to sit on the cartridges for long enough.

In any event I doubt it’s good for the cartridges, so I’ll still state it’s a good idea to keep them from being doused in oils/solvents just to be safe.

Just how "wet" with oil should a self defense gun be kept? I normally remove any excess oil when cleaning, basically leaving a very thin coating.

I have seen YouTube videos where some guns being shot have a lot off excess oil, which I guess is ok for a range session.

 

[JONWILL]

Update. I keep the gun in my right front pocket in a DeSantis Nemesis Holster
At the range I unload the Federal ammo and then loaded up the practice ammo
I always took the gun and wiped it down with a rag covered in light oil( I use Mobil 1). Not soaked but it was enough to clean off powder residue and give it a protective coating
I never got the oil near the ammo or magazine
Before I go to bed I put it in my safe then out the next morning

 

[Texas10mm]

Yes, in some cases leaving a round chambered particularly non flanged rim, can put sufficient pressure over time to push the projectile further into the case. It is especially bad if using aluminum cases. I've often wondered why a bolt pressure relief feature is not incorporated into the safety selector.

What? I've NEVER seen a bullet get pulled into the case from just sitting in the chamber.

Also wasn't there a member here who did a case cleaning myth buster that showed that loaded ammo could be left for a week in a vibratory tumbler with on ill effects?

 

[10MMGary]

Contact the Co.

 

[RETG]

What? I've NEVER seen a bullet get pulled into the case from just sitting in the chamber.

Also wasn't there a member here who did a case cleaning myth buster that showed that loaded ammo could be left for a week in a vibratory tumbler with on ill effects?

I've has some magazines that have bounced around in a Jeep, Hummer and a pickup truck on extreme trails in Moab UT, Ouray CO and just nasty roads in the west for years, and when I deciding to shoot the rounds, have never had a problem.

I have carried ammo under monsoon conditions in a few jungles from SE Asia to S.A. and never had a problem and it got wet (not underwater, but a lot of falling water).

I'm guessing that at this time there are two 14 round PX4 magazines loaded with Buffalo Bore 200 grain FNHC ammo in my GMCs front console that have been bouncing around off/on for three years no (except when I'm camping in Bear country where they are bouncing around in my mag holder or handgun while hiking), and I would bet my life the ammo will go boom when I pull the trigger.

But is what I say positive proof? Nope, as with all the other info posted. However, I do remember reading somewhere about a guy who did put ammo in a tumbler to see if it would fire after a week (or two) and it fired.

 

[10MMGary]

FWIW I am shooting the last box or two of some early 1990's Norma 10MM auto as well as some Winchester Black Talon that is nearly as old. It was purchased by the case(good old days)and has been stored hot/cold damp in ammo cans outdoors in rain, in a tent & barn. It was over the years carried rode & drove down(& up)miles of bumpy roads. I even found some rolling around the bed of the truck lose in the past and it was ugly but chambered & fired accordingly. Never once have an issue and this ammo has seen it all. Two or so years back I shot the last of WW-II surplus Evansville Arsenal 230 gr ball ammo, I can't even imagine how it was stored over it life. When opening a box out of the sealed can and the paper would break & crumble and every round went bang. And again I say contact the ammo Co.

 

[Riomouse911]

Just how "wet" with oil should a self defense gun be kept? I normally remove any excess oil when cleaning, basically leaving a very thin coating.

I have seen YouTube videos where some guns being shot have a lot off excess oil, which I guess is ok for a range session.

Your gun is a machine, and it does require sufficient lubrication to allow the moving parts to cycle properly. You can dunk a gun in used motor oil and it’ll probably function just fine, but it’ll be a sloppy mess... and possibly ruin your ammo if kept in a sopping condition for any period of time.

I keep my duty and pocket auto guns with a thin film of oil on the slide, spring guide, outer barrel where the slide or slide bushing rubs, etc. I put an oiled patch through the bore after cleaning, but I spin a dry patch in the chamber to get any excess out. When a dissemble and interior wipe down isn’t needed, Mags and exteriors are wiped with an oiled rag to prevent surface rust.

Revolvers also get the chambers run with an oiled patch and then a quick spin with a dry patch to soak up excess.

After a rain soaking or a real sweat bath I will disassemble and wipe down the inside and outside with an oiled rag to prevent rust (IMHO the early P-series SigSAUERS were the worst, the slides would start to lightly rust just by looking at rain!). This gives me a chance to check ammo for setback, corrosion, damage, etc.

I don’t want oil puddled in the mag or in the chambers to try and avoid a contamination situation. So far (knock on wood) I haven’t had a real rust issue, stuck case, or a FTF from contaminated ammo in the 28 years I’ve daily carried duty (or off duty) in either auto or revolver... and another 12 teaching on the range... but it still can happen so I practice clearance/reloads just in case.

Stay safe!

 

[Demi-human]

Redacted.

 

[SSN Vet]

My money is on an oil soaked first round.

How much oil do you put in your action?

 

[rodregier]

When comparing ammunition types just keep in mind that mil-spec ammo has sealed case mounts and sealed primers.
As such it can go thru solvents or water much more gracefully that unsealed commercial channels ammunition.

 

[joseywales76]

Gun oil or penetrating oil like wd40 will kill ammo. Water and sweat not as much.


My money is on some kind of oil in this case.

 

[dogtown tom]

Could be settling of the powder. It's a good practice to rotate/shake up the load occasionally. Even change position of stored ammo occasionally.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yes, in some cases leaving a round chambered particularly non flanged rim, can put sufficient pressure over time to push the projectile further into the case. It is especially bad if using aluminum cases....

Absolutely wrong.
Once chambered there is no "bolt pressure" on a projectile. the round can sit in the chamber for decades and the bolt will not put pressure on anything but the case.
Frequent chambering of the same round WILL cause setback as the bullet will make repeated contact with feed ramps/chamber/etc.

 

[earplug]

I had some handloaded 38 SPL underwater while I was messing with a Kayak. Underwater for about three minutes, then four hours before I took them out of the revolver. I fired them a couple days later without issue. Federal primers and lead bullets.
I have had a squib in a pocket carry 22 LR pistol that was over oiled due to my wanting to dissolve some carbon deposits in the chamber, I believe that the newer penetrating and cleaning oils may be detrimental to long term carry ammo.

 

[herrwalther]

Just how "wet" with oil should a self defense gun be kept? I normally remove any excess oil when cleaning, basically leaving a very thin coating.

Thin coating is fine. Most important is to clean up as much oil as possible out of the barrel, magazine, and striker channel. Essentially anywhere it would come in contact with a round.

What? I've NEVER seen a bullet get pulled into the case from just sitting in the chamber.

There might be some confusion about what causes bullet setback. Sitting in a chamber doesn't. Repeated chambering does.

I have carried ammo under monsoon conditions in a few jungles from SE Asia to S.A. and never had a problem and it got wet (not underwater, but a lot of falling water).

Same. Pretty much every piece of military instruction I ever received advocating storing magazines upside down in pouches for this very reason. And a few others that are off topic.

 

[Sulaco]

This is an interesting topic for me. I traded back into a gun I had previously (you know how it is) and the guy who had it (friend of mine) left some of his carry ammo in it. I think it was 124gr HST. I carry 147gr XTP in that particular gun so I shot those 124 HSTs in my Glock 43.

None of them cycled the slide. In fact, the first round was so weak I thought it was a squib load. I broke the gun down and checked to be sure. Shot the second round and same thing. Broke it down to check. Neither round cycled the slide. I shot two more rounds and had to manually cycle the slide, tossed the rest.

Just to add, I have NEVER had this happen with my carry 147gr HSTs before. I have had it happen with some Aquila (actually had a squib load) and Winchester (weak charge like the 124s above) ammo before and now shoot neither of those as a rule.

I do cycle through my carry ammo regularly. I have had OAL issues with chambered (because they get cycled more) rounds as well, and due to high humidity/heat in my area it just makes good sense to do.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Some people report having problems, and some say they've never had any. I'm with Mullo98, Pat Riot, and PapaG...find out for yourself!

If you're concerned about the effects of moisture, oil, vibration, repeated chambering leading to bullet setback or primer cracking, etc., then perform a test of your preferred ammo, in your gun, under the conditions you're concerned about.

Here's an example:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/another-reason-to-rotate-carry-ammo.802960/

My gear seems to be impervious to sweat, oil, and repeated chambering. Yours may be susceptible. The only way to know for sure is to test YOUR stuff.

What a great excuse for heading out to the range!

And then come back and let us know what you learned.

 

[94045]

I've carried spare Hornady XTP .380 for 6 Months at a time in a vehicle. I shoot my 16 carry rounds (1+7+8) at least once a month at the range. I also carry in a pocket holster in the right rear pocket. I've never had a misfire.

I'm a bit a sceptical of Hyper Ammo in .380.
It often expands to much and gives inadequate penetration. If it fails to expand (lots are inconsistent) it often over penetrates.

The XTP (loaded by multiple companies) gives moderate expansion 4 out of 5 times and penetrates 11.5-14.5" if it expands. The 1 out 5 it doesn't it tumbles and penetrates 14.5-17". I can live with that. That seems.to be fairly consistent across multiple test by mutiple entities in multiple guns.

It's also relatively inexpensive for defense rounds and the Hornady brand has never failed to chamber, fire or extract and comes in Nickel Cases (Reduces battery and extraction issues if you ever have them).
That's used in an LCP.

JMO That and a buck will get you a cheap cup.

PS Don't take that as a criticism of HST as I love it out of a lot of guns, it's just not for me out of a .380.

 

[Ifishsum]

I shoot out and rotate fresh carry ammo every 9-12 months or when I can't remember when I last did it. Both revolver and semi. My bet would be oil contamination...I've never any weak feeling rounds in 12-14 years but I ALWAYS dry patch the chamber/barrels (or cylinders and barrel) after cleaning, before reloading again. I also don't ever unload/reload or unchamber the semis except for cleaning - both to avoid possible ammo setback issues and in my feeling that the more handling and manipulation, the higher potential for an ND.

 

[Dudedog]

I decide to conduct a test (well, ok unplanned) and tumbled one of my 9mm match loads for an hour in my wet tumbler with some used brass.
Once I spotted it I set it aside to test for the heck of it when I went to the range.
I didn't set up the chrono for it but it went bang and made a hole on target.

So at least for that piece of ammo being bounced around and being tumbled in soapy water for an hour didn't seem to hurt it.

Primers are pretty hard to kill, powder is a bit easier to mess up

 

[IWAC]

It seems to me that the inertia from chambering a round when the slide slams shut and/or the effect of recoil would break up any "clumping" of powder in a New York minute. My vote is for some sort of oil or moisture contamination. The Military seems to be able to store ammunition for decades without many problems. But, rotating civilian ammo may be a good idea.

 

[Zendude]

Is the primer sealed on SD ammo like military ammo? I would think that for $1 per round, it should have the full treatment. But I’ve often wondered whether the quality control on SD ammo is really any different than range ammo. Other than the bullet and sometimes a nickel plated case, I’m not sure if there’s any other upgrades.