Ok, so here's the question. I was in the corner store today, in a crappy part of town. I don't walk in without carrying, it's a bad spot. Gang banger's are usually outside, lookout's and what not. So a police officer is standing in front of me looking all sorts of pissed off buying some stuff. I saw his holster was undone, and his pistol was unsecured. I was about to give him a friendly heads up, when I noticed his other gear was too, cuffs and whatnot. I at this point realized that it was intentional, and he was in such a pleasant mood, I defaulted to minding my own business. So the question is, why carry your stuff like that so someone can come up behind you and pull your own gun on you. He was pissed off, and not paying attention, and I could of pulled his gun faster than he could of (not that I'm that stupid to try and find out if I'm right, or of that sort of persuasion in the first place). So the question is what is the advantage here for his choice of going unsecured with his equipment.
LEO holster/cuffs undone on purpose?
- Thread starter bjs1187
- Start date
- Status
MikeNice
Member
He was probably coming from a call that required an elevated level of force and was still running on nerves.
Don't underestimate those retention holsters. Some of them are darn near impossible to get the gun out of when you want to. Trying to get it out and a weird angle wouldn't be easy.
He should have secured his equipment better though. It shows either a lack of training or a lack of professionalism.
Don't underestimate those retention holsters. Some of them are darn near impossible to get the gun out of when you want to. Trying to get it out and a weird angle wouldn't be easy.
He should have secured his equipment better though. It shows either a lack of training or a lack of professionalism.
lemaymiami
Member
It would be nice (in a perfect world) if every officer was squared away and sharp.... but that's just not the case in the real world. I swear half the rules in most Departments are in place for the very few that can't seem to even have their shoes tied properly... That's why competent, on the ball supervision is so important (and why, when it's absent for one reason or another... bad things happen). I did a career in law enforcement and saw every level of competence during my 22 years. I had one or two supervisors that were first rate, and had a few that weren't. When I made sergeant all those years ago it was my turn to deal with the daily grind. As I moved up in rank it was my job to make sure my sergeants were doing the right things, etc.
If your local department is squared away, has lots of experience on the street, and good local support you'll see mostly first rate guys/gals on the street. If not you'll see things that bother you and it all depends on who's leading the outfit. The average tenure of a police chief is a bit less than 18 months nationwide (if the last numbers I saw were still valid..). A great Department for fifteen years can turn sour in short order if they get a poor chief and lots of political interference.... that's one of those "ask me how I know" comments.
If your local department is squared away, has lots of experience on the street, and good local support you'll see mostly first rate guys/gals on the street. If not you'll see things that bother you and it all depends on who's leading the outfit. The average tenure of a police chief is a bit less than 18 months nationwide (if the last numbers I saw were still valid..). A great Department for fifteen years can turn sour in short order if they get a poor chief and lots of political interference.... that's one of those "ask me how I know" comments.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
I got to echo what Lemaymiami said. I did 12 yrs on the street, 6 more as a SGT and fininished up as an LT.
The old school chief ran a squared away dept for over 22 yrs. We loved him, but feared his wrath. A real street cop from the old night stick and sap days. If he said it you did it. And he would back up his officers 100%. Screw up and well....
The new chief made my last two years chaos. Not nice to call someome an idiot but in this case it was true. He left after I retired and got a job as chief in a ultra liberal community that loved him.
It is all about leadership.
The old school chief ran a squared away dept for over 22 yrs. We loved him, but feared his wrath. A real street cop from the old night stick and sap days. If he said it you did it. And he would back up his officers 100%. Screw up and well....
The new chief made my last two years chaos. Not nice to call someome an idiot but in this case it was true. He left after I retired and got a job as chief in a ultra liberal community that loved him.
It is all about leadership.
MtnCreek
Member
I think a lot of PD's require level 3 holsters. I would hate to know I had move a strap, push one or two bottons and wiggle just right to get my weapon drawn.
Tse Gee La
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2005
- Messages
- 61
In my ten years of carrying in a level 3 holster, I have seen more officers carrying unsnapped than snapped. Usually it is the rear snap undone since it is the one you'll forget if you haven't practiced. All of his equipment may have been undone, if he just left a jail facility. Most of them require you to unload all your gear while your in with the aresttees.
rosewood151
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2010
- Messages
- 71
A level three is like any other piece of gear. You just need to practice with it, over and over. I have never had an issue drawing my duty weapon, and I love knowing that there are a couple speed bumps to slow down a bad guy.
scaatylobo
Member
26 years as LEO,D/T instructor as well as firearms instr.
my NOT so humble opinion was he was in condition white and should have removed his head from that smelly place PRIOR to going into the public.
There are NO do overs,so making a critical mistake could cost you your life.
my NOT so humble opinion was he was in condition white and should have removed his head from that smelly place PRIOR to going into the public.
There are NO do overs,so making a critical mistake could cost you your life.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
The color conditions represent your state of mind as you go through the world, according to Jeff Cooper. He taught that one could live their life comfortably in yellow without any extra strain once you practiced it a bit.
Some add "Black" to indicate active fighting.
He advocated being in Yellow most of the time.
Some add "Black" to indicate active fighting.
Jeff Cooper said:
He advocated being in Yellow most of the time.
Cooper said:
lemaymiami
Member
Texas... this ought to be a sticky and right at the top of this particular forum.... very good post for beginners to remember.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Oh, in fairness not everyone sits at the feet of Col. Cooper ready to listen. It would cause a religious war
I'm one of the faithful though....
lemaymiami
Member
I remember reading an occasional one of his columns in my police years (back in the Stone Age). Wish I'd had the chance to meet him....
Unistat
Member
Still, even if one doesn't like a lot of what he said, his Color Codes, Carry Conditions, and 4 Rules are pretty much universally taught.Oh, in fairness not everyone sits at the feet of Col. Cooper ready to listen. It would cause a religious war
I'm one of the faithful though....
I know he didn't strictly "invent" all of those, but he did do the most to popularize them.
Well unfortunately HK Dan, I live in a place where I might need a pistol to stay alive, but it's through a very long story the best way to provide for my family at the moment. I don't even really like driving down the street little lone anything else, and I'm working my but off to change that, but for now it's the cards I have in my hand. So I choose to live in "Code yellow" as you gentlemen put it. Sacrifice now, so my family won't have to later. Hope that makes sense, I'm sure there will be some disapproval somewhere though.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
No disaproval here. Im sure we all agree doing the the right for family to overcome adversity by working hard is a high road value. Continue to persevere my friend, aided by our prayers and best wishes.
Please teach the rest of the family to be aware also.
Please teach the rest of the family to be aware also.
scaatylobo
Member
Texas rifleman
Thank you for my forgetting that many still are not up on training and the verbal stuff many here take for granted.
I am too used to the majority here.
I am NOT a worshipper of Jeff Cooper,but he did have many good ideas.
I dont always EDC a 1911,as I am a FIRM believer that shot placement is THE answer to a threat.
But you must have a gun to have ANY answer.
btw,I learned the color code from the police academy in 1982,and had read it prior about 1970 ish.
Thank you for my forgetting that many still are not up on training and the verbal stuff many here take for granted.
I am too used to the majority here.
I am NOT a worshipper of Jeff Cooper,but he did have many good ideas.
I dont always EDC a 1911,as I am a FIRM believer that shot placement is THE answer to a threat.
But you must have a gun to have ANY answer.
btw,I learned the color code from the police academy in 1982,and had read it prior about 1970 ish.
ChCx2744
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,228
For one, he was not following his department's procedures. Two, it is unwise and unsafe practice to not secure equipment like that. You're right, there is no reason for him to not have properly secure and maintain retention on his gear. Unless it's a cellphone carrier or something for sunglasses, all issued or essential job equipment should always be secured and closed. I'm sure if one of his superiors or supervisors saw that they would have some words for him.
DontBurnMyFlag
Member
I've had my gear like that before. Its usually after a good foot pursuit or fight. Hence to possibility explaining his pissed off demeanor.
Just food for thought.
Maybe he didnt have time to correct himself.
Just food for thought.
Maybe he didnt have time to correct himself.
MedWheeler
Member
One of my sergeants was a twice-already retired man in his sixties, and always worked the midnight shift. At the time, the rest of us rotated shifts every 28 days, so he was my sarge only one month out of three. One night, I entered the local 7-11 while on patrol, and he was already in there. Our service weapon at the time was the S&W M67 revolver, and he wore his in a top-strap holster with a thumb break, and it rode pretty much "Barney-Fife" low, along the upper thigh. As we stood there, a couple of guys came in, and one of them said to him: "you know you got your hammer cocked back?" Sammy (not his real name) looked down and muttered something to the effect of "I'll be damned, sure do!" With that, he proceeded to draw his weapon right then and there, and begin what was for him, hand tremors that he had, the arduous act of decocking the gun. That thing was shaking from side to side as he brought it up to just above waist-level so he could reach the hammer with his other hand. I moved away as if to go to the soda fountain. I was amazed he got that thing lowered without it going off. Turned out the newly-acquired Crown Victoria patrol car he was in (the last of the "box" versions) had these rather-cushy seats that would snag the hammer as he slid out of the car. I guess he took it upon himself to finally upgrade to a better, higher-riding holster that offered a firmer fit, since it wasn't long at all before I saw him sporting it.
MedWheeler
Member
HKDan, the point is not that one carries because one expects to "need a gun to get out alive." It is that one carries because if one is not carrying and suddenly does need a gun "to get out alive", then one is, well, really screwed. As Winston Churchill put it: "A man will seldom, if ever, need a pistol. But, if he does need it, he needs it badly."
But, I kind of see your question as it is posed to the OP, and it's because of the way he phrases his story. He does, by that phrasing, describe it as a pretty risky place to go, and even makes it seem as if he only carries in these "risky" places. That would indeed beg the question you asked.
I carry everywhere, but I do not go anywhere with my gun that I would not go without it.
But, I kind of see your question as it is posed to the OP, and it's because of the way he phrases his story. He does, by that phrasing, describe it as a pretty risky place to go, and even makes it seem as if he only carries in these "risky" places. That would indeed beg the question you asked.
I carry everywhere, but I do not go anywhere with my gun that I would not go without it.
franconialocal
Member
I'd be doing pushups if my firearm was found un-secured just walking around town. I take it to level 2 sometimes on approaches to motor vehicle stops, but this is the only time it's ever un-secured.
- Status
