Lessons learned Thursday Evening...

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scottishclaymore

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Some time ago I purchased a Mossberg Maverick to keep in the car. I have to go out to different customers' houses for work and sometimes that puts me places I'd frankly rather not be after dark. I figured having the shotgun around sure couldn't hurt. I have a secure way to store it when I am not in the car, so I wasn't too concerned about a break-in.

This last Thursday evening at about 7 PM (well after dark) I was about to get out of my car when somebody knocked on my passenger side window. I turned to see what it was about, and in a moment about 5-6 teenage guys had surrounded my car (including one in front, making me reluctant to simply drive away), yelling, swearing, beating on the sides, trying to get me to come out, and generally threatening me. I locked the door, kept one hand on the wheel, and grabbed for the shotgun. The effect was instantaneous. The gangbangers scattered, and I simply drove away. Nobody got hurt, nobody got shot. Happy ending.

In retrospect I learned a couple of things from this experience:

1st -- I should have been more aware of my surroundings. I basically went from Condition Yellow to Condition Red in about a half a second. I should've noticed the guys gathering and gone into Condition Orange and gotten myself out of there before it became an issue.

2nd -- I really don't want to go back to that particular area of town unless it is an absolute necessity. Easiest way to win a fight is to avoid it entirely. I have already let my boss know I don't want to go to this particular neighborhood again and he wholeheartedly agreed.

3rd -- Sometimes the mere presence of a weapon can prevent a crime. But while it did so in this instance, that isn't something you can always count on happening. This situation has caused me to reevaluate my willingness to possibly injur or even take a human life in an appropriate emergency situation. I honestly feel that if my life or the life of somebody I love is at stake, I would be willing to do that. Everybody who carries a firearm on a regular basis would do well to give this matter the gravest of consideration.

Comments? Suggestions? Critique? I'd appreciate any and all input here. Is there anything else -- other than the things I've mentioned -- that I should've done differently?
 
That sounds like some neighborhoods I know of in DFW. I am happy to hear it turned out well.

I wonder though how well you could have used that shotgun while you were in your vehicle? If it really came to shooting it might have been better to drive off instead even if it means harming those infront of the car.

I wonder what others think?
 
Yeah -- I realize that. The shotgun is a little unwieldy. Until recently, though, it was the smallest thing I could do. Now I am looking at getting a handgun later this month as that will be a lot easier to use.

Agreed about the driving away part, if it had come to that. Honestly, though, I don't know if I would have actually thought about it or not. :)

Thanks for the input. :)
 
Glad your alright.

I wonder if a pistol would have had the same affect?
Was there anyone behind your car, and could you put it in reverse to get away?
How many rounds does your shotgun hold and how many threats?

I think its hard to critique and criticize without the specifics and no matter how many details you provide us, you were there, we weren't. Therefore you know more about the situation than we ever could. You made it out ok, so I figure you did well.

what would you do differently after you were surrounded. Of course you learned to be more alert, and avoid certain areas of town. But what would you do differently if you were already surrounded the same way again?
 
GrizFire,

Some good questions! I do not think there was anyone behind me, though honestly I don't think I even checked and certainly can't remember right now. I doubt I even thought of it at the moment.

Gun was a Maverick with 8 rounds -- 3 more than there were threats. There was also spare ammunition in the glove compartment.

If I were surrounded again in my car I think I would probably just floor the accelerator. A lot less-likely to fatally-injure anybody, and the likelihood of my getting hurt would also be much less.

For some stupid reason that just sounds less humane than the gun does. :p Is that odd?
 
If I were surrounded again in my car I think I would probably just floor the accelerator. A lot less-likely to fatally-injure anybody, and the likelihood of my getting hurt would also be much less.
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I have seen a person who was run over and drug, I would prefer to be shot.
In the eyes of many the 12 ga shotgun is the ultimate close quarters combat weapon.
People watch moves and see the BG get blown THRU a wall by them.
That big hole in the end of the barrel packs serious intimidation factor.
I have been in a similar situation to you, only I was outside of the vehicle and saw the thugs approaching.
Mr Mossberg 500 saved the day yet again.
Travel with the shotgun is not a bad idea, Having a pistol for close confines is a good idea also.
Sounds to me like you did good.
You made it out.
Nobody got injured.
The thugs MAY think twice about the next car they surround.


Jim
 
These types of situations are the worst in which to defend yourself alone. If one or more of them had been armed and had he/them been willing to act when they saw your shotgun, you hold little chance of getting out of there alive or uninjured.

You can't effectively watch each of the 5-6 guys that have surrounded your car. You could sit there, try and calm down and get a good look at each of the individuals, and try and determine whether you are up against any armed men.

But like I said, one man, in a car with a long gun, up against a handful of punks that might have one or two handguns... it just ain't in your favor. It ain't in the favor of at least one or two of those guys either because I'm sure you could get a shot or two off.
 
scottishclaymore said:
The effect was instantaneous. The gangbangers scattered, and I simply drove away.
Click to expand...

Don'tcha just love watching the way cockroaches scatter when they "see the light"?

The only thing I would add to this would be this thought:

Big flat pedal on the right is your friend ... 2000+ lbs of steel trumps an ounce of lead just about every time. :D
 
You had a 3000lbs equalizer if needed--It's either win/lose, and you won this one, so I'd have to say you did just about all you could do given the situation.
 
Any reason you do not also have a handgun?

The other night on Personal Defense TV, Mas Ayoob discussed how to avoid being a victim at an ATM. He said the drive-up kind were the safest and that one should circle once to look for suspicious people or cars, and then use the mirrors to detect threats while using the machine.

What to do if approached? Mas patted the .45 on his belt and said it produced about 400 foot pounds of energy. He patted the steering wheel and said that once he got his jeep rolling he had about half a million--a very effective way of saying that the thing to do is drive away.
 
had a similar thing when i was 16, obviously unarmed. i drove forward sorta slow, sorta fast, and they jumped out of the way. got in their trucks and chased me to the police station. luckily i knew where the police station was, and didnt have any probs getting there.
but had they have been armed it couldve been worse.
it turned out lucky for you, what if is easy to say. what if you ran over one of their boys, and then they had to avenge it.
guess the only correct hindsight here is situational awareness could be better.
that seems to be the main thing i take from all of these threads. i guess the folks who are always aware of their surroundings just dont get into these situations. the bg's look for an easier target.
soggysod
 
I had a situation similiar with a couple meth heads at an intersection and no where to go. Long story short he and his buddy approach my 4by and his arms start coming up. Not being sure if he had a weapon I went ahead and put my SA up in view. I guess the sight of a firearm will still affect a cranked up meth head since they did a one eighty back to their fart can and drove off. Not happy about displaying but it did have the desired affect. Mic
 
You can't live your life in fear, and no one is always perfectly alert. You reacted the best you could with no notice. Ya you could drive away, but you hafta worry about unintended consequences of the guy in front. You said they were threatening, so you're already in a position to aim the gun at someone. Maybe point the gun at him first and then drive away in the cleared path. Besides, it's good they got scared, maybe just one of them will think about how they came close to dying that night.

I think they would have ordered you out at gunpoint if any of them had one...so ask yourself, what would you do if that happened?
 
Big flat pedal on the right is your friend ... 2000+ lbs of steel trumps an ounce of lead just about every time.
Click to expand...

Well, I drive an older Civic, so... :D Seriously, though, you have a good point there.

Any reason you do not also have a handgun?
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Until recently I was under the mistaken impression it was illegal to possess a handgun under the age of 21 (I am not quite there yet). I just found out a couple of days ago, that this is not the case. In my state it is legal to possess a handgun provided you are at least 18 years of age in any place where unlicensed carry is legal -- which in TX is basically just private property and your vehicle. So I am looking at getting a GP-100 to keep the Mossberg company now...


I think they would have ordered you out at gunpoint if any of them had one...so ask yourself, what would you do if that happened?
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That is a good question. Hindsight says I would simply floor the accelerator, possibly injuring the guy in front of me but getting away. I am not entirely sure what I would have done at the time.
 
consider differently

I would not congratulate myself prematurely if I were you.

You may be imbedding in your mind that you have the situation analyzed correctly and had done the things that you recognize as correct, and therefor have set this precedence in your mind. How it happened is reinforcing that conclusion for you.

Here is what I mean. The gang had surrounded your car. You had locked your doors, turned around looking over your shoulder to retrieve your shotgun.
Suppose in another time that when you refocused to your front, there were those same gang members -this time all holding handguns? As they often do.
Then what?

Because, in the occurence that you had, they did not produce weapons. Well, don't set your mind and the tactics that you deduce, as "that" is the way it will go down, should there be a next time.
The third thing that you learned from this experience is correct.

You should carry on your person.

I'm going to presume something about you. You are a business person and only interested in earning a living. Guns do not fascinate you, nor are they "cool." Therefor the shotgun.

Many here on THR feel the same. We do not like carrying guns, but do so out of being forced to by the times. It is not enjoyable to carry a large piece of steel around day in and day out. We do not envision ourselves as policemen,
avengers or desire any "excitement" our of our ordinary daily
accomplishments.

We do, however, enjoy the freedom to bear arms in this nation, to protect ourselves and loved ones and perhaps the innocent and helpless.

To carry on your person will not mean that you have "gone over to the dark side." You are not a criminal because you arm yourself, nor will you become one by carrying.
 
You should carry on your person.

I'm going to presume something about you. You are a business person and only interested in earning a living. Guns do not fascinate you, nor are they "cool." Therefor the shotgun.
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:D

Well, I hate to burst your bubble but... I would LOVE to carry on my person. I am, however, 19 years old, and for some reason the state of TX wants me to wait till I turn 21. :p A long gun in the car is allowed by the laws of my state, and so that is the best thing that I can do right now. But the day I turn 21 I am filing my paperwork!

As it happens, guns really do fascinate me. Shooting is one of my few recreational passtimes, being both a full-time student and full-time salesperson. My Dad is a long-time CHL holder and we both take the right to bear arms very seriously. I feel mentally prepared to use a gun in a potentially lethal situation and am not worried about feeling like a criminal should I ever have to do so. :)

As a side note, I may not have actually made this clear, but the shotgun was right beside me at the time. I didn't reach over my shoulder. :)

All that said... I appreciate your input and concern, Mr. Thomas! Kudos to everybody for the food for thought you've given me here...
 
scatter them -gun

Sir; if you are a Pizza delivery man, please consider a good armored vest too!
You did say sales, I know.

All joking aside, if it were up to me, young men your age would be elligible to carry, just as you are elligilble to carry in our military and serve our nation.

The fascination with firearms will fade with time and experience, but never fade completely away. So don't worry about my remarks.

How about purchasing a shorter barrel to install on that shotgun?
 
I'd add, grab the cell and dial 911, drop the cell so your hands are free and start yelling that you are surrounded. Any threatening move or attempt to get in, drive away as fast as possible. Don't intentionally drive over anyone, but if you do, that's what they get. (i.e. don't swerve at anyone either, don't throw it in reverse to back over one then switch to drive to run over another)

Escape is the goal.

That being said, you did successfully escape, so hat's off to you
 
All joking aside, if it were up to me, young men your age would be elligible to carry, just as you are elligilble to carry in our military and serve our nation.

The fascination with firearms will fade with time and experience, but never fade completely away. So don't worry about my remarks.

How about purchasing a shorter barrel to install on that shotgun?
Click to expand...

Thank you -- I appreciate that sentiment.

The shotgun already has an 18" barrel on it now, so it really can't get any shorter. I have, however, actually found out it is legal to carry a handgun in the car in this state as long as you are possession age (which is 18), so like I mentioned earlier in this topic, I am looking at getting a handgun for the car that will be a little more wieldy than the shotgun -- if not quite as intimidating. I am a revolver person and am giving the GP-100 a lot of consideration.
 
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